What's your first impression of Eureka?

[Reynhart]

Idd, I found the criticism of omega raids beign just fanservice to be a bit unwarranted considering they said in ARR time that essentially XIV was a fanservice mmo for FF fans

For me, the problem is not to be fanservice, but to be only fanservice.

For example, Crystal Tower is fanservice but is was incorporated in XIV's lore, with Xande being the Allagan Emperor, the tower being a beacon to channel Dalamud's power, etc...No boss in Omega has any actual background tied to them, on top of the each turn having almost no connection with the next one.

[Vstarstruck]

For me, the problem is not to be fanservice, but to be only fanservice.

For example, Crystal Tower is fanservice but is was incorporated in XIV's lore, with Xande being the Allagan Emperor, the tower being a beacon to channel Dalamud's power, etc...No boss in Omega has any actual background tied to them, on top of the each turn having almost no connection with the next one.

Yeaaaaaaaaahhhh...
The omega series is pretty weird and out there sort of speak...
ARR was cool with Coil of Bahamut, having good music, and more to it then just enter and kill one thing
alex , same as ^ plus the neat story
Omega though? ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I think there is a point here, SB in general is too much of only being fanservice, Omega to whatever ff it is i don't care about and Diadem 3.0 leeching itself off FFXI (while doing a poor job at it, i/e only there trying to exist giving players an abyssea type level experience)

[Hyperia]

Yeaaaaaaaaahhhh...
The omega series is pretty weird and out there sort of speak...
ARR was cool with Coil of Bahamut, having good music, and more to it then just enter and kill one thing
alex , same as ^ plus the neat story
Omega though? ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I think there is a point here, SB in general is too much of only being fanservice, Omega to whatever ff it is i don't care about and Diadem 3.0 leeching itself off FFXI (while doing a poor job at it, i/e only there trying to exist giving players an abyssea type level experience)

This is one of the things that got me, its way way too much unlinked fanservice. I never played any of the previous FFs except for VII, I know, my fault, but still. When I went into some of the encounters, they fangirls and fanboys were gushing all over the place and here I was... meh... just a boss, no lore for me or anything in XIV. Even the new 24 player raid was meh for me as I didn't understand a thing besides somebody was missing and we had to rescue them. I didn't recognize anybody in it or understood why it was so darn omg omg omg. Its like going to the lost city of Atlantis and never knowing about the place, its just some pile of ruins.
I didn't mind the previous expansions fanservice as they linked into the current lore and that's what I want, XIV lore. The links in this expansions lore is paper thin and the raids are not raids, lets be honest, there not. There just 4 primals each expansion, no trash to clear, no real threats, none at all. Just go in, punch em in the face and go out. Heck, even Zenos gave us the courtesy of attacking us first before walking off saying your not good enough, Omega hasn't done any of that and he beat Bahamut, we should be scared silly about him but were not. All we got for a raid this expansion is an aloof robot that we will no doubt beaten in a lackluster format.
I really wanted Eureka to capture me and drag me in lore wise, environment wise, encounter wise, but I got none of that. I have never played XI and don't intend to, I want to play and love XIV but its getting very hard to login. I've even started playing WoW after 4 years of dedicated XIV play. I miss the mountains of lore they once gave us, the awesome music by Solken which is nowhere to be heard, the amazing sea of colors in the world design. It all seems to be gone... all we have now is bland designs, bland colors and music I cant even remember.

Has this game become nothing but homage quest? What has happened to XIV's identity in this expansion?

[Remedi]

For me, the problem is not to be fanservice, but to be only fanservice.

For example, Crystal Tower is fanservice but is was incorporated in XIV's lore, with Xande being the Allagan Emperor, the tower being a beacon to channel Dalamud's power, etc...No boss in Omega has any actual background tied to them, on top of the each turn having almost no connection with the next one.

You have a point, but I take the raid as a virtual simulation program so it doesn't feel that wrong for me
Don't get me wrong the bosses don't feel connected to the story of omega itself and feels like an afterthough but I can live with it for now, ofc if the next expansion raid will be something like this again it won't work
Frankly while the crystal tower has been incorporated in the lore at the time it was very forced, if they didn't release sephirot we would've never understood why Xande and the other bosses were using their FF3 models while beign actually normal humans.
And I share Very merry's sentiment that if when we'll get to garlemand we'll see that the right hand man of the emperor is a clown named kefka that would be much worse than having him as simply a simulation.
But nevertheless some examples like the crab in thanalan Bubbling Berney imho shows that the game was always like this in a way.

[Alleo]

Idd, I found the criticism of omega raids beign just fanservice to be a bit unwarranted considering they said in ARR time that essentially XIV was a fanservice mmo for FF fans

A bit off topic: IMO there is a big difference between having fanservice in the form of crystal tower, primals or small call backs in story and something like Omega which is 90% pure fanservice. "Here have character x who has no single connection to this realm other than the its a story part and kill it in a simulation". Even Omega itself is quite bare-bones imo but at least it got some development.

I am also fine with fan service if we would get ore fresh new content between that. Maybe one raid original and the other fanservice but even the 24 man raid was a callback to another game. Its just getting a bit too much for me.

And I share Very merry's sentiment that if when we'll get to garlemand we'll see that the right hand man of the emperor is a clown named kefka that would be much worse than having him as simply a simulation.
But nevertheless some examples like the crab in thanalan Bubbling Berney imho shows that the game was always like this in a way.

The question is: Do we really need memorable villians (often even the final bosses) as part of FF14?

Primals are kinda fine because they often change their look, their background and stuff like that. They use the overall idea behind them but create a different version for each FF.

And to make this a bit more on topic: Its honestly another problem that I have with Eureka. It seems just to be another throw back to another FF. If you need so much nostalgy for your content..then at least make it big. But it seems that you dont really miss much for now if you dont do the story in Eureka. Maybe its a fine story at the end but its a Final Fantasy game where people say that their stories are so great. So why does the story in there feel so lackluster? I mean if this was great with lots of informations and interactions I might have leveled to 20 just for that. But it seems that its just a "please look forward to the real deal" kinda ending.

[Souljacker]

Stories in FF are great?

I don't know what games you have been playing, but the "brooding male protagonist with awesome hair #999999" isn't that great of a story anymore. I'm actually really disappointed in the fanfiction-level story that they have pushed out with the last handful of games and that includes this one. It's just not resonating with me anymore and I can't be alone in being sick of the same default hero over and over and over again. But it's what they know - and when they try to do anything else it fails miserably because they don't bring in any consultation that could help and they come up with something that is entirely unrealistic.

Then they go back to the archives to dig up old successes because they just don't know how to write anything new.

I don't play this game for the story - the story is mostly predictable garbage - I play it because it's a familiar setting with familiar characters and I can do some fights against iconic monsters with my friends. Long ago gave up on anything new and interesting coming out of FF story-wise. I'm sick of the same hero over and over. I hate Estinien and don't understand why he can't just GO AWAY. I pray for the day I don't have to see his smarmy, smug face in some critical cutscene again. I hated the Lord WhatsHisYawn that everyone was wringing their hands over and his stupid topknot. I'm sick and tired of Thancred as well. I hated that whatever dude that presided over some of the most blatantly sexist dialogue I've seen yet in this game while trying to distance himself from it with a 'but that's not me, yo. I know better!'. I'm just sick of it all. It's so saturated and old and... how many brooding heroes with awesome hair can they possibly stuff into one game? When is it enough? When?

And all the strong and interesting female characters are evil in some form or fashion. The top three that stand out all are varying degrees of batshit insane because of their pasts - because women can't handle some abuse in their pasts without annihilating entire populations, right? Soooo realistic. Then there is one that isn't insane and ends up as our ally, but she's meek and mild by all standards. This is not good storytelling. This a some kind of message and it's tiresome.

So older games - some of them had good story - back when this kind of a story was 'new'. Lately? It's just garbage and that's my opinion expressed as politely as possible.

I think the only character I even like this xpac is Zenos himself. He's the only one that is even remotely relatable, and even he falls into that 'brooding male antagonist with awesome hair #99999' mold. Nice bustle dress though....

[Vstarstruck]

I think SB is a good example of nostalgia gone wrong.

When done right it is very good, the thing is, the object focus for the nostalgia reference should be able to be enjoyed by anyone and actually linked to the story. For example, lets say there was a boss in our diadem 3.0 that has references to FFXI, the character itself may not be from ffxi but maybe the moves reference it. Maybe it has 2 moves, the first move does a moderate amount of damage, that you should heal the person to full because the second move would be a "tankbuster" that takes place 1-3 seconds later, where the damage from it + added effect could almost drop a tank from full hp to dead. The added effect would be what ffxi players know as a skill chain (show skill chain graphic after second move)

OR! what if we entered this diadem 3.0 with it really being new content, lets say a true eureka. We enter this place having only 1 ability at first, since you are level 1 there. From there you could level up, gain new abilities (that only work in that place, i/e like pvp) and as you level up you can actually see stat increases like hp etc.

I mean if you are going to say "was intended to give a old MMO feel", why not do it fully? not half finished beta? To me I am fairly sure people hate this for the most part because it is unfinished, feels rushed out despite delays???

[Remedi]

A bit off topic: IMO there is a big difference between having fanservice in the form of crystal tower, primals or small call backs in story and something like Omega which is 90% pure fanservice. "Here have character x who has no single connection to this realm other than the its a story part and kill it in a simulation". Even Omega itself is quite bare-bones imo but at least it got some development.

I am also fine with fan service if we would get ore fresh new content between that. Maybe one raid original and the other fanservice but even the 24 man raid was a callback to another game. Its just getting a bit too much for me.



The question is: Do we really need memorable villians (often even the final bosses) as part of FF14?

Primals are kinda fine because they often change their look, their background and stuff like that. They use the overall idea behind them but create a different version for each FF.

And to make this a bit more on topic: Its honestly another problem that I have with Eureka. It seems just to be another throw back to another FF. If you need so much nostalgy for your content..then at least make it big. But it seems that you dont really miss much for now if you dont do the story in Eureka. Maybe its a fine story at the end but its a Final Fantasy game where people say that their stories are so great. So why does the story in there feel so lackluster? I mean if this was great with lots of informations and interactions I might have leveled to 20 just for that. But it seems that its just a "please look forward to the real deal" kinda ending.

I actually share the sentiment of wanting something fresh as a villain or story, I'm just saying that the game was always about fanservice most of the time and even in ARR it really wasn't that great (Xande and the crystal tower series was NOT a good meshup)so saying that now the game is too much fanservice is technically wrong but it's not wrong asking for something FFXIV original (and I mean truly original, ravana and susano are essentially an aspect of gilgamesh)

[Vidu]

Stories in FF are great?

I don't know what games you have been playing, but the "brooding male protagonist with awesome hair #999999" isn't that great of a story anymore. I'm actually really disappointed in the fanfiction-level story that they have pushed out with the last handful of games and that includes this one. It's just not resonating with me anymore and I can't be alone in being sick of the same default hero over and over and over again. But it's what they know - and when they try to do anything else it fails miserably because they don't bring in any consultation that could help and they come up with something that is entirely unrealistic.

This is wildly offtopic, but I wanted to respond to it anyways - and maybe with something you call a cheap answer, but please: Still hear me out!

So, to give you the answer right away: Maybe you grew out of the type of story the Final Fantasy games are telling?
Something, that wouldnt be surprising - after all their main target audience is probably people between 15 and 25 or something around that age. I dont know how old you are, obviously, but I could see those stories not being as appealing anymore at a certain age - or after you've seen them so often in different variations.
That doesnt mean that the next story of that type is really bad - even though, granted, I havent played FFXIII and FXV, so I cant speak to the quality of those stories, but I can speak to the quality of FFXIVs story. And personally I have to say that I enjoy it. I specially dont get where your go at all the male characters comes from, because I always felt that we're having a lot of strong female characters - both in prominent on-screen time roles aswell as in important positions all over Eorzea (all three leaders of the ARR-city-states are female, we have several female guild leaders, even in jobs that have a more "male" conotation).
I also always felt that the story wasnt the simple story of a hero (=us) saving the world and putting everything right - if you pay attention to the story, there are a lot of details that can make you wonder "Are we even doing the right thing here?" and more so "Do we even have a choice to handle this differently?"
And I'm not really sure how this is the same story as we had in other FF-games? Even with things like Omega being a bit much on fanservice, the whole world is still very rich on lore - I have a giant book next to my bed on it, that I still havent finished reading because its so heavy that I'm often to tired to hold it for long when trying to read a few pages before going to bed!

Its of course your right to not like the story and voice that opinion - but personally I feel its a bit unfair to call it all "garbage".
I get being tired of this kind of story though if you've played/read/watched a lot of stuff telling, well, this kind of story.
I got tired of crime-related stories for a while after I must have read like 20 or 30 books of that genre in a couple of months. Each new one I picked up wasnt getting me. They seemed uninspired and boring and I always knew what would happen next. That doesnt mean that those books were bad though - I just had enough of that story-type for a while.
I gave it a rest, picked up some fantasy stuff and returned to crime recently and found it really enjoyable again.

Kind like with my previous post about gameplay-innovation: Story-innovation isnt something that can just magically happen. Not even something that has to magically happen. Personally, I'm still enjoying the story - actually, the story is even a big part of why I'm playing this game or FF-games in general. Not so much because I want a spikey-hair-hero, but because... I cant even pin-point it really, its just that stories have always been a strong point of the series for me. I'm actually desperatly looking for more FF-like games to play when I'm fed up with stuff like Eureka (any recommendations, guys?).

You sound a bit like you're just done with the genre. And as I said before: I know, thats a cheap answer and you're obviously also entitled to not liking the story for whatever reason, not saying you're wrong there! Cant argue about taste after all!
But sometimes, when you dont like something that you used to like, it could be time to take a step back and ask "What has changed? Me - or the thing?"

[Souljacker]

both in prominent on-screen time roles aswell as in important positions all over Eorzea (all three leaders of the ARR-city-states are female, we have several female guild leaders, even in jobs that have a more "male" conotation).

I wanted to respond to this specifically because I hear this A LOT, and I feel it's disingenuous at best. Did SE put some female characters in prominent positions? Yes. HOWEVER, and this is huge, there is ALMOST ALWAYS a strongER male character who isn't in that position for whatever reason his backstory holds and SE makes sure we know about it. The Admiral has Mistbeard, The Sultana has Raubauhn, the gladiator lead has whoever that derplander is that's running around doing whatever it is he's doing, the fisher's guild has the absent-minded fisherman who's actually in charge, the pugilist lead has the old maat-esque character, and that's just a start. Maybe you don't see it - and that's ok, because to you there's nothing wrong with this, but to me... There's so few characters that are strong on their own that when I see a character whose story doesn't involve some dude who did whatever he did that ended up with her in that position, I'm genuinely in awe. In fact, the only such story I can recall is the Black Mage quests and even that is because it was from an older character they pulled out of mothballs.

I'm not trying to trash these guys. They are writing what they know. I'm just expressing an opinion here that it's getting tiresome always being the villain, always being second-best to someone else and having the only real character I can look up to being Shantotto. They can do better than this. They can. I KNOW they can.