We need better comunication with the Community team

[Xtrasweettea]

[…] People are not talking about their problems with Eureka in this because this is not the thread for that. (It was simply used as an example and its sad that so much discussion is about it again) A lot of us that disliked it had pointed out the flaws we saw in a lot of other topics that are about it. (The constructive critisim thread for example)

Just wanted to point that out because people did do that but not here.

I know. This thread was discussion on developer to player communications (relations). I was being sarcastic to someone who decided to complain about stuff not even topic related.
If it is any consultation, back in the days of pre Voidwatch FFXI, developer communication was limited to live events you had to go to. There was no forum. I know that the developer relations for FF14 are not good as other companies. I just remember the non-existent commination SE used to have with its player base. I hope SE continues improving their relations with the player base.

[Ruf]

I know. This thread was discussion on developer to player communications (relations). I was being sarcastic to someone who decided to complain about stuff not even topic related.
If it is any consultation, back in the days of pre Voidwatch FFXI, developer communication was limited to live events you had to go to. There was no forum. I know that the developer relations for FF14 are not good as other companies. I just remember the non-existent commination SE used to have with its player base. I hope SE continues improving their relations with the player base.

Now that's more like it,I agree to that comment.

[Vstarstruck]

Thats the long and short of it. How to you filter and categorize good useful feedback from useless feedback and the repeated topics popping up constantly? This thread was complaining about lack of response from devs so I'll try and keep it relevant.

From near as I could tell that thread was not parody. So what would happen if the response was "working as intended" would that be sufficient?

Sorry for making you repeat part of your post. I was not ready to reply but I wanted say something as i ask the drama to stop. I cut it short because of that request. Also in the middle of that I was trying to find the thread so I could comment better so I got no clue what was being said there.

Supposedly SE reps read everything, so in the case maybe they can relook in breaking off the current habit of the last 2 expansions and consider different methods and letting a long grind able compete with high raid gear. I do not mean diadem 3.0 grinds i mean something that takes time maybe something of the line of ffxi does, using a system like Trial of the Magians, something people have confidence in investing. (what that did to the original relic weapon line)

With that said it does feel this is off your point, as this was not the main focus of my request. My request was more inline of development interaction, so a reply there could be "we may consider changes in the future but our current system has no room to change things at this time" This is why I did not like the reply to the diadem 3.0 situation as it does not reflect people being heard on the core content. The biggest being level sync, and better search functions. I am really shocked we got no response or interaction for those. Another big one was pointed earlier in the thread:

Now that I think about this, is this from dealing with "1.0 limitations"? don't you think it is time to rebuild the games core? All this wasted time and resources trying to build around these limitations is too much and at some point the development team needs to admit building around these limitations is taking more time and resources then it would take to fix the core.

I think it is.

Actually, I think this is probably the area SE really needs to solicit feedback on. It's understandable that they'd be nervous holding back on development for 6-12 months to fix back-end architectural issues. Speaking to the community is how they get permission to do precisely that. I would vote in a heartbeat for a year-long moratorium on content, in exchange for the back-end issues being entirely resolved and 'server limitations' being a phrase we never heard of or thought of again. It could be that 90% of the player base feels the same way, and it also could be that 90% of the player base doesn't. I don't know, SE doesn't know, other players don't know - and so we're left in this frustrating sort of cycle, with everyone in the dark.

Hopefully if anything comes out of Eureka, it's the need for formalized player feedback and suggestions. Give us surveys, have Q&A sessions, I don't care how it's done. Just do something.

I really believe now the lack of content with all the delays we got for diadem 3.0 was tied to this issue. I really like replies or discussion over improving FFXIV's core. At some point I believe SE needs to admit trying to work around 1.0 limitations is costing more money and time (over the course of the 3 expansions) then fixing the core. If that core is not fixed sometime in the future I do not think they game is going to have a future. DO they really expect to survive, 5.0, 6.0, etc while still having 1.0 limitations?

[Alleo]

Thats the long and short of it. How to you filter and categorize good useful feedback from useless feedback and the repeated topics popping up constantly? This thread was complaining about lack of response from devs so I'll try and keep it relevant.

From near as I could tell that thread was not parody. So what would happen if the response was "working as intended" would that be sufficient?

Well if they somehow have enough data that they can say that majority of those players that are meant to be the ones to play the content (like if raiders are fine with raids) are truly fine with it, then yes a post of them in the topic saying that they wont change it because its sufficient, is enough. The problem is that they dont truly know any in depth opinions since they dont have surveys. And because we are often left hanging for more information about really concerning topics. When the price for some countries suddenly changed without any notice before that and people rightfully raged in the forum it did suddenly get important because the rage was high and other sites started to talk about this (bad PR). Thus they suddenly gave an answer..The question is: Why are those things only there when a lot of rage are going on and are not communicated beforehand? The same with the sudden and silent changes to emotes and other items from merchandize. Why not a post that explains this before it happens so that people can have a choice and not just sit silently and hope that the storms goes over and everyone is still happy enough to continue?

Communication with the customer is a really important key for the success of a company. (IMO) Especially in a competitive market like games. SE seems to seriously still lack in that.

I know. This thread was discussion on developer to player communications (relations). I was being sarcastic to someone who decided to complain about stuff not even topic related.
If it is any consultation, back in the days of pre Voidwatch FFXI, developer communication was limited to live events you had to go to. There was no forum. I know that the developer relations for FF14 are not good as other companies. I just remember the non-existent commination SE used to have with its player base. I hope SE continues improving their relations with the player base.

Oh, well then I misunderstood your comment. Sarcastic reponses are a bit hard to see for me especially when they are not the "in your face" type of sarcastic comments. But yes its better than in old times but at the same time companies also have so many ways to get information while people also can get lots of stuff from the internet. Thus a bad PR thanks to bad communication can also hurt way more today then in the past. So for me they have to really step up their game and honestly finally understand that they selling a global game thus should not focus that much on their japanese audicence. (At least that is the feeling I got)

[MageBlack]

I do wonder what their reasons are for not having more communication and more regional communication to cater to the differences in internet culture. Are they gunshy because of how impulsive players are with their feedback? Is it out of necessity to reduce miscommunication because the imaginations of players gets out of hand so quickly which inevitably leads to disappointment. (look at every piece of content released that has had any forewarning to its playerbase) Is it a language barrier? Could it be lack of staff? Lack of interest in communication? Trying to keep things secret so other companies dont take their ideas?

But most of that has nothing to do with responding to feedback on current content or suggestions at improving the content. I dont envy anyone in the public eye like this, I couldnt imagine seeing a constant stream of anger and frustration at something you worked hard on.

[Mahrze]

...

I think this falls back to your original post. How much of all this "feedback" really can count as "feedback" vs what they have in mind for x content or the game in general. How many people are there to relay all the "feedback" and maybe if there is a laundry list of priorities in regards to feedback.

Another point you mention is the culture barrier, as much as people bring up how in the Japanese side they are more open to open communications; I am sure that they don't have the same expectation on other sides, to be as open that is. There is also simply a limitation on information provided, there's no Yoshi/Murouchi-equivalent on the NA/EU side. The next LLP has Murouchi as a guest so that might give us some insight on what goes behind the scenes on the community management and maybe even add some info on/to it all.

But bearing open arms with a barbed jacket ain't exactly a welcoming sight.

[Vhailor]

I do wonder what their reasons are for not having more communication and more regional communication to cater to the differences in internet culture. Are they gunshy because of how impulsive players are with their feedback? Is it out of necessity to reduce miscommunication because the imaginations of players gets out of hand so quickly which inevitably leads to disappointment. (look at every piece of content released that has had any forewarning to its playerbase) Is it a language barrier? Could it be lack of staff? Lack of interest in communication? Trying to keep things secret so other companies dont take their ideas?

But most of that has nothing to do with responding to feedback on current content or suggestions at improving the content. I dont envy anyone in the public eye like this, I couldnt imagine seeing a constant stream of anger and frustration at something you worked hard on.

In fairness, much of the anger and frustration is precisely due to the lack of strong, bidirectional communication. If I were a member of the XIV development team, I wouldn't be personally surprised by the anger and frustration; I'd be asking what's going on, too. Development teams are used to being responsive to the needs and desires of their customers, but all evidence visible from the outside suggests that SE is working in a bubble right now, and has been for years with FFXIV. That's almost certainly something the dev team feels, too, and I'd be willing to bet many of them aren't any more comfortable with it than we are as players.

To be sure, being responsive isn't some panacea for player anger. There'll be plenty of frustrated players no matter what you do. But generally speaking, not being visibly responsive is a sure-fire way to worsen the issue - and doubling down makes it even worse.

[Vstarstruck]

I do wonder what their reasons are for not having more communication and more regional communication to cater to the differences in internet culture. Are they gunshy because of how impulsive players are with their feedback? Is it out of necessity to reduce miscommunication because the imaginations of players gets out of hand so quickly which inevitably leads to disappointment. (look at every piece of content released that has had any forewarning to its playerbase) Is ita language barrier? Could it be lack of staff? Lack of interest in communication? Trying to keep things secret so other companies dont take their ideas?

But most of that has nothing to do with responding to feedback on current content or suggestions at improving the content. I dont envy anyone in the public eye like this, I couldnt imagine seeing a constant stream of anger and frustration at something you worked hard on.

do you feel I answered your question in full now?

Now this is my personal view, I do not know how true it is, but I really think the root is arrogance. I feel this lead to the flop of FFXIV 1.0 as well. "People will buy it no matter what we do, so lets make the cheapest route" Basically they know having FF name alone can carry far because of the long established playerbase. I do hope this mindset became questioned though, with the blacklash of FFXV by some, and more and more people speaking out on the ffxiv's repeat treadmill, not even trying to deviate from it.

Remember this is my personal view, I have no proof, I am not trying to insult, but I really do think they depend on "blind following" SE say "we make it new and innovative *releases something* People take it as new and innovating because SE said so, no matter what was done.

[MageBlack]

I am not trying to insult, but I really do think they depend on "blind following" SE say "we make it new and innovative *releases something* People take it as new and innovating because SE said so, no matter what was done.

Yes you have more than answered it, thanks!

As to the quote above, you don't have to look further than the mobile game crap they have been pumping out lately. I've lost track! I totally agree, arrogance coupled with unrealistic ambition. I have no idea how they thought they could have put 1.0 on a PS3.

[MistakeNot]

In fairness, much of the anger and frustration is precisely due to the lack of strong, bidirectional communication.

I have to ask: What anger and frustration? Apart from a few loud mouths here on the forums I am not seeing much anger or frustration.
I suppose I could be missing all of it, but from what I can see the majority of players are more or less happy with the current state of the game, and not angry at all.