Confessions of a Toxic Elitist

[Tridus]

That's just moving the goalposts. Let's try another thought experiment. What if SE started introducing RNG elements that break the parser? Now whatever BiS gear and optimal rotation you have no longer works 100% of the time, if at all.

That wouldn't break the parser. The parser just reports what the server tells the client is happening. Nothing more. The only way to "break the parser" like that is to have the server LIE to the client about what's happening, which would have the rather unfortunate side effect of having what the player sees and what's happening be different.

That would make any kind of high level play impossible because the game would effectively be randomized. Push buttons, stuff might happen. Who knows what? That's not how real games work.

The entire reason parsing works at all is because there is very little RNG involved in raiding.

No, they work because certain skills always do certain things under set conditions. That means there's an optimal rotation. Parsers help you find it and see how effective you are. That's it.

It's scripted to a point where if you know when something happens, you can be prepared.

You don't need a parser to do that if you can record the fight and learn the moves. Better ban Twitch, Youtube, every PC, and the "Share" button on the PS4!

Now imagine going one step further, and the game remembers you. It somehow knows you're "better" and changes it's strategy knowing YOU are there. Now all these parser-based stats goes into the toilet because it's using the data against you.

People who like a challenge would welcome that. The lower end of the playerbase would quickly get unhappy if they learned a fight and then suddenly the fight changed, though. I don't think it'd have the effect you think it would.

And SE has already indicated they log all the data needed to do this if they really wanted to, it was revealed as such during the Ungarmax post-mortem.

They can tell when people use something on the server end. Going from there to making dynamic adaptive fights that aren't wildly imbalanced or effectively just random stuff happening is quite a leap on a technical level.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That's just moving the goalposts. Let's try another thought experiment. What if SE started introducing RNG elements that break the parser? Now whatever BiS gear and optimal rotation you have no longer works 100% of the time, if at all.

The entire reason parsing works at all is because there is very little RNG involved in raiding. It's scripted to a point where if you know when something happens, you can be prepared. Now imagine going one step further, and the game remembers you. It somehow knows you're "better" and changes it's strategy knowing YOU are there. Now all these parser-based stats goes into the toilet because it's using the data against you. And SE has already indicated they log all the data needed to do this if they really wanted to, it was revealed as such during the Ungarmax post-mortem.

Edit: I have to say this a lot because people get really defensive. I do not personally care what you do with your own computer, but if you are using a parser to kick people from duties, you're the problem.

Uh... what? As per usual, you speak of things you have precisely zero understanding of. ACT literally just reads the battle logs. Fights could be randomized a thousand different ways and provided numbers remain posted in chat, ACT will relay that information to the play. It essentially functions as a real-time calculator as players themselves could perform such a task themselves. In fact, some hardcore groups back in a ARR did as FFlogs didn't exist yet.

Kicking people based on parsers is no different than if I required everyone who joined my party to be a Miqo'te and kicked whoever wasn't. The party leader or majority vote make the rules. The only caveat SE imposes is we not publicly shame players by posting numbers.

Just like your White Mage nonsense months ago, you have no idea what you're talking about.

If they are dependent on using it to know anything about the state of the fight, then yes, they don't actually know how to play the game, they are simply reacting to the parser.

It sounds as if you're conflating parsing numbers and triggers. Only the latter calls out mechanics for you. Parsing numbers is simply what I said above and has no bearing whatsoever on mechanics.

[Dualgunner]

Do any raid, and wait for someone to complain about others not doing the mechanics.

That's because people aren't doing the mechanics, and getting themselves or others killed and putting the victory of the run in jeopardy. That has nothing to do with messing up the parser's recording; it will still work perfectly fine.

[IttyBitty]

Do any raid, and wait for someone to complain about others not doing the mechanics.

I would love to see your explanation as to why "Why are you not dodging the splat?" leads to "adding RNG would break parsing".

Because at this point, given the many ridiculous things you have said, I don't think you know what a parser actually is.

If they are dependent on using it to know anything about the state of the fight, then yes, they don't actually know how to play the game, they are simply reacting to the parser.

Wait nevermind you don't have to bother, you've already sealed the deal.

[HoodRat]

The only way to "break the parser" like that is to have the server LIE to the client about what's happening, which would have the rather unfortunate side effect of having what the player sees and what's happening be different.

Don't we already have that though...just not intentional? Or is it? :thinking:

[KaivaC]

So I've been avoiding the forums all day for personal reasons, but the recent posts have come to my attention and I'm wondering how this thread turned into a debate over parsers.

[IttyBitty]

So I've been avoiding the forums all day for personal reasons, but the recent posts have come to my attention and I'm wondering how this thread turned into a debate over parsers.

Because logs had been mentioned and logs are the root of all evil, apparently. Sorry bud. Hope you're feeling better.

[HoodRat]

So I've been avoiding the forums all day for personal reasons, but the recent posts have come to my attention and I'm wondering how this thread turned into a debate over parsers.

The same reason I go to the forums: certain people go to any thread and randomly start talking down to the elitists which usually aren't even involved at all and how they're ruining the game with all their toxicity, parsing, and/or speedrunning. And of course there are those people, I'm sometimes guilty of being one of them, who just can't let that fly and start off by trying to simply explain how the former person is incorrect and then you know that person just won't have any of it and, despite all logic and reasoning, will continue their rant and it just goes downhill from there.

[KisaiTenshi]

That wouldn't break the parser. The parser just reports what the server tells the client is happening. Nothing more. The only way to "break the parser" like that is to have the server LIE to the client about what's happening, which would have the rather unfortunate side effect of having what the player sees and what's happening be different.

Not necessarily. The game client can be told "hit for 0.xxx%" using relative numbers, and that provides a much less useful metric to parsing. People want to see big numbers pop. Get rid of all the numbers, and people will cry about it.

That would make any kind of high level play impossible because the game would effectively be randomized. Push buttons, stuff might happen. Who knows what? That's not how real games work.

No, that's just how crappy thoughtless games work. What makes this game fun is that the battle choreography tends to happen at a pace you can't just load into a macro and "press x to win", but at the same time, it does change strategies when HP reaches certain points.

No, they work because certain skills always do certain things under set conditions. That means there's an optimal rotation. Parsers help you find it and see how effective you are. That's it.

Thus making people go "BiS gear, One true Rotation, git gud" , if this information was unable to be discovered with an unauthorized tool, people would, *shock* have to do trial and error. Hence usage of the tool is cheating.

You don't need a parser to do that if you can record the fight and learn the moves. Better ban Twitch, Youtube, every PC, and the "Share" button on the PS4!

Oh don't be ridiculous, Square Enix has said that you can record the video subject to the Materials use license. Plus they now have the Duty Recorder, which to me seems like a better idea.

People who like a challenge would welcome that. The lower end of the playerbase would quickly get unhappy if they learned a fight and then suddenly the fight changed, though. I don't think it'd have the effect you think it would.

They can tell when people use something on the server end. Going from there to making dynamic adaptive fights that aren't wildly imbalanced or effectively just random stuff happening is quite a leap on a technical level.

If I was developing the game, I would be tempted to make the fights change by doing 50%/35%/15%. 50% of the "underperforming" players get the regular duty, as it was designed. 35% of the players that are "better than most" but not the top, get an adaptive version of the same content that activates when any of the players are in a duty, and the top 15% of the players get a version of the content that adapts specifically to their strategy.

So an Adaptive version of the content, would change the order and speed of the dungeon encounters, but otherwise the strategies remain mostly the same (otherwise it may lead to exploits.) The "vendetta" version would identify what strategy the player uses, and explicitly break it by reacting to those rotations rather than then their own choreography schedule. Tank switches out of tank stance, tank buster, healer dps, tank buster, healer overhealing, spawn more adds, adds defeated too quickly, spawn twice as many. etc.

Uh... what? As per usual, you speak of things you have precisely zero understanding of.

Nah, I know how all the unauthorized software crap works because that is my pet peeve with MMO's. People using cheating tools, people botting, and people being assholes to others by using those tools. With this game it's parsers, with Mabinogi it was game mods that showed the combat power (a hidden number), and that mod lead to all kinds of cheats being introduced. Cheaters like to brag about having an advantage over others, thus they are easily caught out.

[Miste]

If they are dependent on using it to know anything about the state of the fight, then yes, they don't actually know how to play the game, they are simply reacting to the parser.

You do understand that "parsing" means how much damage you are doing in numbers right? It's just numbers.

How do you react to the fight based on just numbers on a screen?

I mean...if someone was parsing they look over to see what numbers they are doing...

Say it is "4976"....

How does "4976" somehow magically make you know the fight or mechanics and how to do them?

If you can't see "4976" if you are not parsing then how would that make you forget how to play?

Sorry, but I have to echo Bourne here...you simply don't understand what you are talking about.