Can someone from devopment explain why Eureka was delayed for so long?

[EmmaVirgin]

im pretty sure they searched the fun in it. and at some point they just had to release it without it.

[akaneakki]

im pretty sure they searched the fun in it. and at some point they just had to release it without it.

Fun is subjective. I find it fun with my friends from FC/LS and cross server friends. I don't find expert roulettes fun, maybe you love grinding that for months? I like savage, maybe you don't like it?

[Kallera]

Fun is subjective. I find it fun with my friends from FC/LS and cross server friends. I don't find expert roulettes fun, maybe you love grinding that for months? I like savage, maybe you don't like it?

Cool story.

Eureka put me to sleep last night.

Each time I'm reading something like the highlighted part, I wonder: Do you find this content only fun with your friends? Maybe even because of your friends? Because you're doing it with them, maybe even in VoiceChat, talking about some nonsense, while grinding mobs?
Its not meant as attack, everyone is entitled to like different things, but I cant help but wonder: Is this content good and fun enough that you'd enjoy it by yourself? Or is it more the company of your friends that you're enjoying here while Eureka without them would bore you to death aswell in 10 minutes?
Because if it would, its not the achievment of the game that you're having fun with that content - its the achievment of your friends/company. And to spend time with them you don't need Eureka...

Exactly.

[akaneakki]

Cool story..

Tell me what you find fun in this game.

Each time I'm reading something like the highlighted part, I wonder: Do you find this content only fun with your friends? Maybe even because of your friends? Because you're doing it with them, maybe even in VoiceChat, talking about some nonsense, while grinding mobs?.

What you said last line sure thing, but we also talk about the stuff that's happening in the game too. We laugh when someone keeps getting aggro and dies, we love it when we get cool items we been grinding for etc. Do I have fun with strangers? Sure thing, in fact I added 4 of them into my discord server last night because they happened to enjoy playing with me too. People don't wanna grind but same time they don't wanna clear content that actually gives them higher ilvl, why? Effort, paying attention to the screen, actually playing? You can never satisfy MMO players in many ways. It's either too much grind or absoluttely nothing to do after the grind fest been happening too fast. You can tell me what you find fun and be realistic about it, asuming you would want some of it to happen in the game? And I've done it many times with strangers and still find it fun. It's grindy`Sure, but I also played plenty of games both online and offline to grind to get myself things i want. Maybe it's the fact I've done it so many times before or simply because I'm not spoiled enough to get things handed at me for no reason? You tell me.

[Vidu]

What you said last line sure thing, but we also talk about the stuff that's happening in the game too. We laugh when someone keeps getting aggro and dies, we love it when we get cool items we been grinding for etc. Do I have fun with strangers? Sure thing, in fact I added 4 of them into my discord server last night because they happened to enjoy playing with me too. People don't wanna grind but same time they don't wanna clear content that actually gives them higher ilvl, why? Effort, paying attention to the screen, actually playing? You can never satisfy MMO players in many ways. It's either too much grind or absoluttely nothing to do after the grind fest been happening too fast. You can tell me what you find fun and be realistic about it, asuming you would want some of it to happen in the game? And I've done it many times with strangers and still find it fun. It's grindy`Sure, but I also played plenty of games both online and offline to grind to get myself things i want. Maybe it's the fact I've done it so many times before or simply because I'm not spoiled enough to get things handed at me for no reason? You tell me.

Since you're implying that my complains are based on wanting things handed to me, let me make one thing clear: I absolutly do not mind a grind. I have finished 3 ARR and HW relics - all from scratch, all when they were current content. I farmed for all ponies, all birds and while I'm having pretty bad luck when it comes to those stupid dogs, I am continuing my mission there. (I guess my brain wanted to protect me from thise, so I forgot to mention it: I got BOTH freaking Yokai-mounts! You know, the terrible, terrible FATE-grind things. And I dont even like the look of them! My PvP-level was at 50 when PvP was rather dead content and queuetimes over an hour normal...) I have basically every job at 70 (except for monk... and leftovers for dragoon and ast). My little casual-semi-static is progressing at Savage atm.
Actually, the first game I've ever played - Pokemon Red - I grinded the hell out of that. The first Final Fantasy game I touched was 10 - and my last savegame there has about 300 hours, most of them spend with grinding for exp and money to grind for more exp. My other major hobby besides videogames is cross stitching - I can easly pour 80+ hours into just one project.
Please understand that I do not expect things being handed to me.

I do, however, expect to be entertained by a videogame - a fight like Shinryu EX for example does that for me because its actually keeping me engaged, makes me pay attention and react to things happening. I find that content both enjoyable with my friends aswell as with (skilled) strangers.

Now, Eureka on the other hand: The core-element of the fight in there is utterly boring to me, because, lets face it: the combat system of FFXIV isnt that fun to begin with. You hit your rota and be done with it. The mechanics of a fight like Shinryu and dealing with them are what makes the content engaging and fun (at least to me - sorry, pressing 1-2-3 and then 4-5-6 and then back to 1-2-3 and maybe 7, 8, 9 in between is not fun).
Eureka basically has non of those. NM might have some mechanics to them, but you need to keep in mind that you're gonna spend most of your time there not fighting NM but the normal mobs with a cone-AoE at best.
I had fun doing exploring bits and the quests for Krile - at least the ones I got to do so far because I realised: In order to play enjoyable content, I need to put in hours of boring, dull grind. I dont need to put in effort to get item-rewards, I need to put in effort to get fun-content-rewards. And thats wrong, sorry.
I understand that the social aspect of the game is a major fun - makes sense with an MMO after all. And I also understand that specially FFXI-nostalgia-people might wanted something like this back - except they forgot that chatting was possible with FFXI-combat, but not with what we've got here.
But content still needs to be fun or enjoyable without that social aspect - it can be more fun with people around, for sure. It most certainly always will be!
But it has to work as game, by itself, before that.

If "please, give me something fun to do in Eureka because beating up the same monster over and over again isnt" equals "you just want stuff handed to you!" I dont know what to tell you.
Give me fun content.
Or at least give me some variety.
Give me a choice and more than one way to achieve my goal.

For Eureka for example:
Give me daily explore missions to find certain spots. Give me a hint that if I kill one particular mob, I can get extra loot. Let me find or stumble over treasure chests or maybe a logbook, explaining something about Eureka. Give me a labyrinth with puzzles to solve. Make me pull a certain mob to a certain spot and kill it there, to open a secret door.
Just... let me do something beside chain-pulling-braindead-grind. The content makes me want to watch a movie because by itself its just so, so boring - but at the same time it just requires enough attention that I cant even do that. Eureka doesnt make me pay attention to the screen because there is something fun and engaging happen but because I might pull another mob by accident. I want to look at the screen and pay attention to it! But the game needs to give me something actually worth looking at and paying attention to, if you understand what I mean?

I do not mind a grind in general - absolutly not.
I do however mind a boring grind - more so one for, at this point, outdated rewards. Granted, the carrot might be worth it to you and I hope the enjoyment you get out of it, is enough for you.
I told you what I would find fun now and I'd say I've been pretty realistic about it - because: basically thats more than just zerging down monster over and over again.

I dont want to have to rely on people - wether its strangers or friends - to distract me from how boring the core-aspect of Eureka is.

[akaneakki]

Sinc.

I'm saying others want content handed to them, not implying you are. Never said YOU are saying that. You pretty much said it yourself, doing shinryu is fun, it's fun for me too. Paying attention to the boss and it's mechanic is fun, while dishing out great dps on all tank, healer and dps classes. What the relic is doing is a catch up and lets players with less time to learn fights or aren't skilled enough to do so, maybe no friends/fc/ls to do it with but can get some gear thats lower than the best gear. It's fair game, because you don't really need good gear when you don't even do higher end game content. I don't mind the grind, like you said, you been grinding a lot of the things, even if they were pretty bad grinds, like the fates you did? I never even got my mounts, because it's something I didn't want to. Relic always been outdated, no matter what. People have to understand that. I think it's pretty dumb to put the ilvl on the weapons as ilvl 355, it could been 360, which is better. .

Also I like your ideas, I mean giving us daily quest inside there would be dope, maybe rare items drops of regular mobs that your group first claimed and pop a NM by using the item? Idk, something like that be cool too I think.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Relic always been outdated, no matter what. People have to understand that. I think it's pretty dumb to put the ilvl on the weapons as ilvl 355, it could been 360, which is better. .

I suspect the reason they didn't is so the next 24-man gear isn't immediately rendered obsolete. After all, what motivation will people have to spam it if they can work on multiple relics for better gear?

[Kallera]

Tell me what you find fun in this game.

I enjoyed the hell out of palace of the dead. used to do raiding, but got burned out on it. Right now I'm into rp and doing things with friends. That's definitely keeping me playing more than any single content.

Other than rp and potd I can't find one specific thing I can point to and say "that will always be fun for me", because eventually the grind reduces it to a paste, if it isn't a thing I hate outright. Am I going to keep trying Eureka? Perhaps, it has lockboxes, but its leaving a bad first impression for me with the relic, it looks and plays like dino island, and I have reservations about sticking this out and giving the high levels a chance for I355 GEAR.

They said it wouldn't be like Diadem, yet it is. That it is based on the wishes of those that played ffxi, yet I'm just, I can't see this having a good future, stacked with relic as it is.

[Vidu]

Fun is subjective. I find it fun with my friends from FC/LS and cross server friends.

Each time I'm reading something like the highlighted part, I wonder: Do you find this content only fun with your friends? Maybe even because of your friends? Because you're doing it with them, maybe even in VoiceChat, talking about some nonsense, while grinding mobs?
Its not meant as attack, everyone is entitled to like different things, but I cant help but wonder: Is this content good and fun enough that you'd enjoy it by yourself? Or is it more the company of your friends that you're enjoying here while Eureka without them would bore you to death aswell in 10 minutes?
Because if it would, its not the achievment of the game that you're having fun with that content - its the achievment of your friends/company. And to spend time with them you dont need Eureka...
______________________________________________________________________
As for why the development took so long... yeah, I'd like to know that too...

My personal theory is that a good portion of time actually went into stuff like the party system and the option to invite players inside the instance.

My hope is that they spend the first 6 months desperatly trying to come up with something creative, fresh and new and then gave up on it and had to start from scretch. Wouldnt make me happy but more hopeful for the future that they tried something else before Eureka and used this final concept as "Damn, we got nothing...!" instead of actually believing that this is good content that people wanted.

[silverlunarfox]

Each time I'm reading something like the highlighted part, I wonder: Do you find this content only fun with your friends? Maybe even because of your friends? Because you're doing it with them, maybe even in VoiceChat, talking about some nonsense, while grinding mobs?
Its not meant as attack, everyone is entitled to like different things, but I cant help but wonder: Is this content good and fun enough that you'd enjoy it by yourself? Or is it more the company of your friends that you're enjoying here while Eureka without them would bore you to death aswell in 10 minutes?
Because if it would, its not the achievment of the game that you're having fun with that content - its the achievment of your friends/company. And to spend time with them you dont need Eureka...

I actually agree with your first sentiment. I totally abide by the game is fun with friends theory. This is shared not only in FFXIV but in other games as well. And while a game is fun when played with friends, it doesn't mean that game is good. So while the OP said fun is subjective, which is true, that doesn't make it good either. (good also being subjective I understand, however if a game is only good with friends you can't help but wonder...)

The problem is, at least for me, FFXIV's base gameplay is too slow for endless mob grinds. If it was action based, I wouldn't mind it in the slightest. I play dynasty warrior and like games for days. Endless mob killing? sign me up! However with how slow FFXIV gameplay is.....its not fun in the slightest....And I'm bothered it had to be delayed in order to implement it as it is now.