It's about time Shield oath and Grit become Abilities instead of Spells. (off-GCD)

[Saeno]

There is no sense DRK or PLD have their stances, it should be deleted away.
Warrior defiance and deliverance makes sense, but tank stances in other tanks doesnt, why do we even need this for them?

For one thing, tanks in earlier levels would really enjoy their tank stances. And secondly, why delete the stances when instead they could be made to be better to entice end game raiders to use them? Similar to how end game warriors make use of their tank stance. Defiance is obviously a lot better than Grit and Shield oath currently, but that doesn't need to be the case. Those stances could be buffed instead.

[shao32]

snip

i respect you opinion if you give more value to the defense of grit, im not like that even i will love a full grit uptime being aviable someday.
tank stances mitigation is pretty useless and dont have any value today more by the cost of the dps, dps is everything, if you remove the gcd and turn it ogcd it will not change anything, ppl will still playing gritless like now all the time and we still sufering huge amouts of damage penalty every time we use it again, keep it on gcd but removing the MP cost will do the same as you want with less damage penalty in general bcs the gcd is a penalty that can be easily avoid it compared to pay every time you use it.

today tank stances have only 2 use and its agro for pulling and mitigation for masspulling, if they turn both skills use tp instead of mp and make it ofgcd i think will be better but i doubt that happen.

[Launched]

No, it's not time for them to become off-gcds. Equilibrium is a 60s cooldown that WAR would have to use when PLD/DRK don't. PLD and DRK have Sheltron/TBN available all the time which more than makes up for their stances being on gcd.

[Saeno]

No, it's not time for them to become off-gcds. Equilibrium is a 60s cooldown that WAR would have to use when PLD/DRK don't. PLD and DRK have Sheltron/TBN available all the time which more than makes up for their stances being on gcd.

Sheltron/TBN is not a strong argument in favor for PLD/DRK's mitigation kit compared to WAR's kit because TBN can be used on the WAR (as it quite often already is) and Sheltron's gauge cost can be used for intervention instead and then used on the WAR. Not to mention WAR already has amazing cooldowns with their big CD, Vengeance, being a 120 second cooldown instead of 3 minutes like Sentinel and Shadowall, and the extremely powerful Holmgang which is on a 180 second recast sprinkled with Rampart, Raw intuition, Thrill of battle and the powerful Inner beast. To say PLD/DRK do not need oGCD stances because their mitigation would be better than WAR is debatable, but as it is, WAR already have their tank stance as an additional cooldown, something PLD/DRK try to avoid at all costs.

[Nedkel]

No, it's not time for them to become off-gcds. Equilibrium is a 60s cooldown that WAR would have to use when PLD/DRK don't. PLD and DRK have Sheltron/TBN available all the time which more than makes up for their stances being on gcd.

You are saying it, like warrior dont have giant advantage over them already.
Warrior not only having highest damage, but also he could switch stanced without paying any MP or GCD for it.
And war has 5 ways to heal it out, thrill of the battle, equilibrium, storms path, steel cyclone and inner beast and those doesnt cost him DPS either.

Taking away a cost for stance swaps will not break them, instead it will make them closer to warrior, especially DRK that suffers from using grit way more than PLD.

[BorisDaBlade]

Instead of putting the stances ogcd, how about reworking provoke. Outside normal tank swaps, voke is supposed to be snap aggro, until a dps lands a nuke and steals it. The +1 is just too weak when a pld/ dark has to voke, stance swap, aggro combo. In that 5 or 6 seconds dps are still going ham.

Give provoke the +1 for 5 seconds. Not enough to finish an aggro combo, but long enough to keep a dps from stealing. It’s still gives a margin for error in the tanks part, but not as spicy to cause a wipe because aggro is all over the place.

[Canadane]

Instead of putting the stances ogcd, how about reworking provoke. Outside normal tank swaps, voke is supposed to be snap aggro, until a dps lands a nuke and steals it. The +1 is just too weak when a pld/ dark has to voke, stance swap, aggro combo. In that 5 or 6 seconds dps are still going ham.

When it's from another tank, you'll get shirked so you don't need to change stances or even use an enmity attack ideally.
If it's something from say a death and you need to recover quickly, again a provoke > enmity attack is all that's needed. You shouldn't swap stances after the provoke, if you really need your tank stance do it before, then if required use an enmity move. Doesn't need to be from your 1-2-3 combo. Flash, overpower, shield lob, whatever.

[BorisDaBlade]

Yeah I meant to say after an mt random death, but I can see your point on the shield lob, unmend deal though.

However, if there is a random mt death you can probably count on being mt for at least 30 seconds depending on if it’s a pug or not. The voke rework would prevent pld/drk stances being used as actual ogcd mitigation since you still need to waste the gcd to activate it, gives enough time to establish full aggro before deciding if you need to go tank stance, and just makes an mt random death easier to manage.

[Saeno]

Give provoke the +1 for 5 seconds. Not enough to finish an aggro combo, but long enough to keep a dps from stealing. It’s still gives a margin for error in the tanks part, but not as spicy to cause a wipe because aggro is all over the place.

This is a very interesting idea and I do like it, however the only issue I see with this is that if a tank by mistake hits provoke while they have a debuff that increases the damage they take, like say Death Sentene in Unending Coil, it would cause a death to a tank simply for using a button when they shouldn't have. I believe for this reason, provoke does not work the way you've mentioned.

[BorisDaBlade]

This is a very interesting idea and I do like it, however the only issue I see with this is that if a tank by mistake hits provoke while they have a debuff that increases the damage they take, like say Death Sentene in Unending Coil, it would cause a death to a tank simply for using a button when they shouldn't have. I believe for this reason, provoke does not work the way you've mentioned.

I hadn’t really considered that and as a fat finger voker myself, I can see how this could be a very big problem. Once I get on a pc I shall delete my suggestion. And I’m serious. I random voke way more than I should. Probably need to move it to a different location on my HB lol