Forbidden Materia, meant for the hardcore or just the lucky?

[Coglin]

Well, because it is statistically possible for me to get the max amount of the highest level materia in ny given piece of gear, the factual answer is luck.

[Alcide]

This has been argued before. You cant say it takes more effort to run a mindless dungeon 50 times then to get the required crafts and materia needed to make this stuff. In fact its taken me more time and effort to lvl crafts then to run a raid over and over. Difficulty has nothing to do with it because both are arguably easy tasks.

That's not my point, what I meant is that when doing a dungeon there is a drop rate that affects the reward, but the most important thing is getting to the end of the dungeon and when talking about hardcore content it shouldn't be taken for granted.
If I don't get to the end of the dungeon it's only my fault and i deserve not to get the reward. That's the part missing in the forbidden melding process. Getting a DoH to 50 is time consuming, but it's not hard or engaging, just as gathering materials for 100x recipes or spiritbonding 500x materia.

I'm not saying that forbidden melding is easy, I'm saying that right now it can't be considered a hardcore content because you don't get the feeling that you actually had a part in that process.

[Raagnar]

That's not my point, what I meant is that when doing a dungeon there is a drop rate that affects the reward, but the most important thing is getting to the end of the dungeon and when talking about hardcore content it shouldn't be taken for granted.
If I don't get to the end of the dungeon it's only my fault and i deserve not to get the reward. That's the part missing in the forbidden melding process. Getting a DoH to 50 is time consuming, but it's not hard or engaging, just as gathering materials for 100x recipes or spiritbonding 500x materia.

I'm not saying that forbidden melding is easy, I'm saying that right now it can't be considered a hardcore content because you don't get the feeling that you actually had a part in that process.

It's not about "hardcore content". You imply that its more meaningful to get your gear from a boss fight or raid then to craft it when that's pure opinion. I do not find the raids and boss fights in this game rewarding or engaging and doing them over and over is very boring, but that's my opinion and how i like to play. I'm not saying you don't deserve to have great gear because you fight the same thing over and over and it takes no effort. So is your point that because crafting doesn't require fighting it shouldn't be able to make really good gear?

[AdvancedWind]

Oh, I'd like to throw up to extra ideas for materia crafting. Don't think those are good enough to make a new thread, tho.

1 - Materia Fusion - Fuse 2+ materia of the same tier to get tier +1 materia; Fusing more than 2 materia increases the chance that the created materia will have higher stats. This would give an use to repeated materias or low level materia for higher level players.

2 - Materia recipes - Alchemy recipes actually using materia and or some material(s) to create a new materia. Random ex: Eye of Fire X 2 + Fire Moraine + Catalyst + Fire Crystal = Fire Materia or Fire Materia + Wind Materia + Lightning Materia + catalyst = Astral Materia, etc, etc.

Instead of the proposed fusion (available to everyone), those are crafting recipes, following the same rules as a regular craft and having higher chance for better stats based on quality. Maybe a few materia types should only be obtainable by crafting. This would include Alchemists in the materia fun.

3 - Spiritbond + and Forbidden Craft + food recipes for culinarians.

[Volta]

Multiple materia melds are supposed to be hard.

High-level materia is supposed to be in scarce in supply.

What's the problem here? That you can't easily develop uber-gear?

I'm pretty sure if you could get M5 on a lot of gear, it would make new content far too easy, and then you'd be saying that's a problem, too.

[Alcide]

It's not about "hardcore content". You imply that its more meaningful to get your gear from a boss fight or raid then to craft it when that's pure opinion. I do not find the raids and boss fights in this game rewarding or engaging and doing them over and over is very boring, but that's my opinion and how i like to play. I'm not saying you don't deserve to have great gear because you fight the same thing over and over and it takes no effort. So is your point that because crafting doesn't require fighting it shouldn't be able to make really good gear?

That's not what I said, actually I didn't like when they made NM drop finished items and i liked much better when they were dropping materials that then crafters would use for unique items.
What I meant is that forbidden melding in order to be considered a content can't be completely based on luck, it must involve both luck and some sort of skill from the player, being it a minigame like what we have right now when crafting, or a more depth system with an affinity chart between different materias, or between matera and gear, or a success rate depending on stats, moon phases or whatever.

I didn't mean that dropped gear should be more powerfull than crafted gear, I was just comparing the two situations pointing out that I have a role in dropping gears, while I absolutely don't in melding.

[Physic]

If you succeeded at making the item you would have gloves that would be the best stat wise until you could duplicate the same results, the only real difference would be lower defense, and access to slightly higher teirs. Also its pretty hardcore, because rather than taking a gambler's approach, you are taking a an approach that is more based on matching an insane probability with effort. IE

gambler buys a lottery ticket
hardcore person buys every possible number combination

but honestly, dont kid yourselves, range and supply were a big factor in dynamis anyhow. The fact is almost everyone who got dynamis weapons did so on the back of hundreds of other players hours. the gamble there was in how many would drop per run. In all honesty the materia system isnt meant to be easily obtained, it is intended to be fairly insane to achieve, requiring either supreme luck, or supreme patience.

My reccomendation for how to go about doing so that it can feel more incremental and less random, at least once you get to teir 3 or so,

make an attempt whenever you succeed and keep at least one from that teir. IE you only try to upgrade when you at least 2 for any teir.
get a level 3, dont attempt level 4 till you have two level 3, keep one level 3 at all times. This way you can have an illusion of progress and always have access to a good item while trying to obtain it

[Dragonheart]

Right, they could do a thing like this: Raid/dungeon drop.

-Normal mode= 1 socket
- Hard mode = same item with 2 socket

crafted gears:

-NQ = 1 socket
-HQ = 2 socket

so this will give more sense to hq too...

Quoting my self for more visibility.. I'd like to hear more opinion on this system (the same, and most functional in almost every new/old MMO) ..

The predefinied (not lolrandomluck ecc ecc) socket system will pay BOTH PLAYERS that like to CRAFT and sell HQ item (+1 socket on an hq item is more attractive than +2 , 3 def eva etc no?
And even skilled players that can BEAT HARD CONTENT and at the same time maybe dont have time to craft/farm for money to buy tons of equip item and try the luck..

What do you think? (sorry for my bad english)

[RedAffinity]

As a hardcore player, I feel that the work I'd be putting into this personal quest of mine would simply be made obsolete as the time I invest into it passes. It all seems to contradict itself.

It's likely best to save your efforts for when the dust has settled. Too many changes to crafting and gear, and with level cap increase on the horizon we'll expect higher level crafted gear as well.

If you have the resources, then by all means you should, and you have some valid concerns in your post. But overall like I said i'd personally wait to see where the game settles before starting on such an adventure

[HiirNoivl]

It's not hard. Melding materia is 0% skill 100% luck.

I submit you just do it!

It would be absolutely hilarious if you got a 5 meld gloves on your first try.

Hey... it could happen.