What is this new anti dps healer attitude?

[Xelanar]

The main problem is the huge gap between healer experience and how comfortable someone is in terms of letting party member's HP drop down. When I started playing, I was always afraid of someone dying, so I permanently kept everyone at full HP all the time. I was afraid of DPSing, because back in the day, when Cleric Stance was a thing, Switching stances could end very very painfully for everyone, if timed poorly.
Developers may have removed the Cleric Stance part, but there is still something of a 'comfort zone' people tend to let HP drop until they start healing, that is not only based on a healer's experience, but also to a certain degree on item level.

The reason this argument exists comes from two different mind sets. One who perfers to play for maximum safety, and the other who instead is focused on the most time-efficient tactics. Not everyone is set on those extremes, but every single healer is going to be somewhere in between them, with enough arguments at hand to support their decision. And again, this can be very much based on a player's experience and also biased by it.

I like raiding savage content, and I got used to DPSing there. So of course, when I'm running i.e Rabanastre or expert roulette... I DPS too. I'll be the first to admit, that this has sometimes lead to wipes or is in fact a handicap if something goes wrong. Because by dealing damage I reduce the amount of errors I can fix, or in the worst of cases even the time required to fix them. Since I use my oGCDs for normally healing my party, I can no longer rely on them in emergency situations, which increases the time I need to handle them appropriately. Does it stop me from DPSing? No. But if someone dies, even by their own mistake, if my personal DPS prevents me from avoiding someone's death, then blame also goes on me.

I understand people who perfer playing safely when grouped up with players they don't know. And I do believe, that by DPSing I compromise my party by reducing the amount of 'error mitigation' I can provide. The whole argument is mainly focused on who is right and who is wrong, when instead everyone should acknowledge the benefits and downsides of their own prefered playing style, since none of them is the default best way to go for any situation.

[HyoMinPark]

With the raids and trials, there is a specific choreography that works individually for them, and they do NOT go any faster regardless of how much DPS you do. They are dependent on simply not making unrecoverable mistakes. So it's better for the healer to save their MP for healing if it's going slowly, because burning that MP on DPS is not going to speed it up.

This is so incredibly wrong that I am literally speechless.

[SicariusSeven]

I think Healers DPSing are fine so long as they don't get too distracted. As long as everyone does their job, NO ONE should be complaining. Healer DPSing but you're still alive and no wipes? Great move on, don't complain!

[VanilleFang]

snip.

I'm really confused by this post. I use WHM for all my 70 runs and I never have issues with dpsing and healing...

Gather two groups, and having DPS burn them down, while Healing the damage to the tank.

Uuuh. A pull for me generally goes Divine Benison > Eye for an Eye > Regen > Asylum > Cleric Stance+Presence of Mind+Thin Air > Holy > Swiftcast Aero III > Assize > Holy Spam > Tetra > Holy Spam > Bene > Holy/Stone IV/Cure II as needed

It's a complete burn most of the time, regardless of the size of the trash group. Everyone burns the mobs, not just the dps.

So it's better for the healer to save their MP for healing if it's going slowly, because burning that MP on DPS is not going to speed it up.

What? Have you ever heard of skipping Soar? I'm completely at a loss at what you're saying. Raids and Trials are bosses, that have a set amount of HP. They aren't just something you survive until you hit a specific time limit. Enrages are a thing for a reason... healers can help beat enrages. Extra DPS is extra DPS. And healers do not need to save MP for healing..

I'm seriously wondering if you even play a healer in the content you are posting about. >_>

[NanaWiloh]

I'm really confused by this post. I use WHM for all my 70 runs and I never have issues with dpsing and healing...



Uuuh. A pull for me generally goes Divine Benison > Eye for an Eye > Regen > Asylum > Cleric Stance+Presence of Mind+Thin Air > Holy > Swiftcast Aero III > Assize > Holy Spam > Tetra > Holy Spam > Bene > Holy/Stone IV/Cure II as needed

It's a complete burn most of the time, regardless of the size of the trash group. Everyone burns the mobs, not just the dps.



What? Have you ever heard of skipping Soar? I'm completely at a loss at what you're saying. Raids and Trials are bosses, that have a set amount of HP. They aren't just something you survive until you hit a specific time limit. Enrages are a thing for a reason... healers can help beat enrages. Extra DPS is extra DPS. And healers do not need to save MP for healing..

I'm seriously wondering if you even play a healer in the content you are posting about. >_>

I dont really get what she is trying to get at either, but Raid bosses and trials do have hard set mechanics. Basically mechanics that you can't skip unless you instant kill the boss which a regular player obivisiously cannot do.

[Hunky]

I experienced this too when I landed into Shinryu in the roulette. Me and the other healer were told to just stop dpsing and only focusing on healing. It was fine with me, and we beat it eventually.

Has anybody else noticed that the healing spells aren't as powerful anymore? I remember I could just cast a regen and that would be enough for a whole pull but I've been finding myself having to heal a lot more often and dps less. It definitely feels different from healing back in Heavensward or ARR.

Maybe the reason you're seeing more "anti-healer dps" sort of attitudes is because of the changes made to healing power.

I'm still definitely pro-healer dps, and I still try to dps as much as I can. But I have noticed that it's not the same anymore. I can't just cast regen and call it a day.

[VanilleFang]

I dont really get what she is trying to get at either, but Raid bosses and trials do have hard set mechanics. Basically mechanics that you can't skip unless you instant kill the boss which a regular player obivisiously cannot do.

Yes, I get that. But DPS still kills bosses faster. You will see those mechanics faster and the boss will due faster. Which the exact opposite of what she claimed.

@Hunky: The healing spells are fine. We have a lot of oGCD options and mitigation options... I find myself dpsing even more now since they changed Cleric Stance and healer dps to scale off Mind.

[HyoMinPark]

Has anybody else noticed that the healing spells aren't as powerful anymore? I remember I could just cast a regen and that would be enough for a whole pull but I've been finding myself having to heal a lot more often and dps less. It definitely feels different from healing back in Heavensward or ARR.

No, healing spells are most definitely still OP. If you’re having to heal more, look at the tank: What’s their gear? What’s their cooldown usage look like? How many mobs are they pulling at one time?

On WHM (i350), my Cure II was almost 17,000.
On AST (i350), my Benefic II was over 15,000.
On SCH (i350), my Lustrate was almost 15,000.

Those are just the basic single-target heals.

[Millen1]

As a dark knight I don't mind healers tossing in some dps so long as the party stays alive. Only time I don't like it is with whm using holy spam right after I pop blood price stunning the mob or when I use TBN and they use holy. SE needs to fix how holy works with drk BP and TBN skills. In 24 man raids, if I am the MT I do prefer healers heal more for me and the group. It gets old seeing two healers dpsing like crazy and I die to a lack of heals. I generally will say something when that happens. Also if they aren't healing the dps and the dps end up dead to unavoidable damage it is annoying. Dead dps don't do any dps and that is dumb when it is due to a lack of heals. They have one job, heals. If they can and want to toss in some dps as they can, then good. if not, no worries, dps should be doing the dps anyways. Just my two cents.

[Fhaerron]

Gather one group and kill them quickly by everyone DPS'ing
or
Gather two groups, and having DPS burn them down, while Healing the damage to the tank.

What changed with StormBlood is that the developers changed the trash mob pattern so you get ambushed, thus the "drag two groups of mobs together" technique is a guaranteed wipe if you don't know where the ambush is.

Thus as a healer, you might burn more MP trying to recover from a tank that poorly timed their CD's (which guess what, are just long enough so you can't use them twice during trash mobs) , or as a tank, you might have to resort to self-healing if the healer is too busy DPS'ing.

With the raids and trials, there is a specific choreography that works individually for them, and they do NOT go any faster regardless of how much DPS you do. They are dependent on simply not making unrecoverable mistakes. So it's better for the healer to save their MP for healing if it's going slowly, because burning that MP on DPS is not going to speed it up.

How about gathering 3 to 4 groups and have DPS & healer burn them?

This has nothing to do with gear, I've gone in runs where healers just have the 290 artifact gear and they have no issue keeping me alive while I pull the whole zone before the boss room.

And I'm no Ub3r l33T tank, I'm no LMG pro player or 24/7 world first ultimate clear.
I'm just your average joe player, I just know when I have to press certain keybinds (cooldowns).

Stormblood dungeons changed what? Where's what killer ambush? I never been in a SB dungeon as heal or DPS, always tank (and there was a time where I farmed those SB experts) I pull the entire area before each boss (or split up in 2 occasionally), I've never encountered these killer ambush.
Please tell me how to unlock these harder versions of the experts, maybe they finally make the dungeons fun again.

No offence but I have to ask, have you actually done any raid, trial??
Burning MP on DPS is not going to speed it up... wat?
Maybe I suck at math or something but you have 2 runs, in the first run you have 2 healers each doing 3K DPS. In the second run you have 2 healers each donig 0,00 DPS.
I can tell you which run is going to go MUCH faster.


Have you actually played this game? :s