Extreme primals do not belong in Mentor roulette.

[Ryannex]

Overall, having Ex primals isn't too much of a bad thing in my opinion. These fights are all exceptionally well designed and it's really a shame that they can all be blitzed through unsynced now. Are you expecting to always get a clear? Of course not, but with every wipe and fail you're helping the newer players understand the mechanics and get used to strategies they will need to learn for future fights - which is basically the point of Mentor roulette, and being a Mentor.

I had Titan extreme the other day for my mentor roulette, and after literally 40 minutes of wiping, we managed to clear and it was SUCH a great feeling. Not only for the people who cleared, but also for me being able to guide them through it and experience a fight I used to love properly (Without just unsyncing and beating him up in a couple of minutes). I could have just left as soon as I entered with the thought that it was hopeless -- but we did it and people learned!

All I can say is to just try your best to teach people and help them - don't always expect the clear, and just enjoy taking part in content that you'll otherwise never experience again.

[Texa]

People in this thread keep acting like mentor roulette is "impossible" because of the pretty low odds that you'll get a ex primal but at the same time I know mentors just on my own server who got the mentor 2 seater mount over a year ago.

Idk about y'all bit usually when do it I get guildhests, msq primals, qarn, or bayflox.

[CorbinDallas]

The issue, in my opinion, has nothing to do with player skill, it's the ignorance that comes with (at least on EU) a multilingual DF.

Sure, you can sit and type out mechanics all day, but there's absolutely zero guarantee that everybody understands it, which wouldn't be so bad if people actually spoke up. If people would actually learn to communicate, yes, even via auto translate, instead of being ignorant and continuing to do the same stupid mistakes over and over again, extreme primals wouldn't be so infuriating.

[ServerCollaps]

But that's my point. Novices aren't "average players", they're novices, i.e. new to the game. And even if they were average players, is it really reasonable to expect content with "Extreme" in the title to be designed for average players?

they queue for it, otherwise it wouldnt pop. And what player is more appropriate to help them than a "mentor"?

[Fynlar]

If you think EX trials shouldn't be in the mentor roulette, it's you who shouldn't be in the mentor roulette. You are litterally donating your time when queuing for it, so if you aren't ready to saddle up for the whole ride, do all other mentors a favor and don't even wear the crown.

If you think me queueing for mentor roulette means I am willingly enslaving myself to poor play and people who just will not listen or "get" mechanics, you're sadly mistaken.

It is no more a "donation of time" than it is in any other roulette, and just as many people would not tolerate an expert dungeon that took more than a half hour to complete, I'm not willing to tolerate wasting that much time against Ramuh EX when it's absolutely clear the group is getting nowhere, either.

At lvl 50+, basic job knowledge should be known. I don't mind teaching fight mechanics, but those are honestly not usually the problem. It's tanks who don't know what a cool down is, or how to provoke. Spending 30 minutes teaching that in endgame content is not what mentors are for.

This. Lost count of how many Garuda EX runs I've gotten that just fell apart because they could never get past adds, no matter how blue in the face I got trying to tell the main tank not to grab both the adds + trying to tell everyone else to then separate the adds.

Simply put, extremes are not for everyone, yet the game makes no real attempt to tell the player "hey, you're getting into some serious shit now, you better actually know what you're doing and not expect to just get carried like in everything else so far"

[Oakley]

they queue for it, otherwise it wouldnt pop. And what player is more appropriate to help them than a "mentor"?

There's a difference between mentoring, i.e. providing guidance and assistance, and outright teaching an entire encounter that, back when the content was relevant, took people--skilled players, might I add--several dozens if not hundreds of attempts to clear. My suggestion is that Extremes are removed from all Duty Finder random matching queues outright, but it would only apply to Mentor Roulette.

[Seig345]

You may not have to unlock mentor roulette to be a mentor... but you do have to become a mentor to unlock Mentor Roulette, and you’re forced to have the crown on when you queue for it. This seems to make it clear that the Mentor Roulette is not some kind of free extra roulette reward for unlocking your mentor status. You’re expected to exemplify your mentor status when you queue for the roulette. Meaning it’s not meant as just another way to get tomes.

[Aniond]

They do belong in Mentor. They have new mechanics that need to be taught. Mentor is their so you can teach someone who has never ran the content how to do it properly. Its not just another bonus QUE

[ServerCollaps]

There's a difference between mentoring, i.e. providing guidance and assistance, and outright teaching an entire encounter that, back when the content was relevant, took people--skilled players, might I add--several dozens if not hundreds of attempts to clear. My suggestion is that Extremes are removed from all Duty Finder random matching queues outright, but it would only apply to Mentor Roulette.

you talk about groups that started progressing ex primals with min ilvl and that had no echo. People heavily outgear those fights nowadays, even when synced + you get the echo buff, which makes them mostly trivial and easy to teach

[Oakley]

you talk about groups that started progressing ex primals with min ilvl and that had no echo. People heavily outgear those fights nowadays, even when synced + you get the echo buff, which makes them mostly trivial and easy to teach

But, again, the comparison isn't accurate. Max item level sync and 5 stacks of echo mean nothing when groups can't time avoiding knockbacks in Titan, break stuns in Ramuh, and dodge cane/sword in Shiva. These kill people immediately regardless of item level; they're pure mechanics.

In appropriate mentor content, a mentor should be able to provide guidance while still mostly being able to carry the group. This is why mentoring works in normal Alexander and normal Omega; the fights are mechanic-intensive, so they benefit from a mentor's ability to teach, but not mechanically PUNISHING, unlike Extreme primals. In Alex and Omega, messing up a mechanic might kill you but not screw the group. That's the opposite of Extremes, where one person screwing up can cause a wipe. That's probably the biggest distinction and the best reason for removing Extremes from the roulette.