Extreme primals do not belong in Mentor roulette.

[ServerCollaps]

But that's my point. Novices aren't "average players", they're novices, i.e. new to the game. And even if they were average players, is it really reasonable to expect content with "Extreme" in the title to be designed for average players?

they queue for it, otherwise it wouldnt pop. And what player is more appropriate to help them than a "mentor"?

[Oakley]

they queue for it, otherwise it wouldnt pop. And what player is more appropriate to help them than a "mentor"?

There's a difference between mentoring, i.e. providing guidance and assistance, and outright teaching an entire encounter that, back when the content was relevant, took people--skilled players, might I add--several dozens if not hundreds of attempts to clear. My suggestion is that Extremes are removed from all Duty Finder random matching queues outright, but it would only apply to Mentor Roulette.

[ServerCollaps]

There's a difference between mentoring, i.e. providing guidance and assistance, and outright teaching an entire encounter that, back when the content was relevant, took people--skilled players, might I add--several dozens if not hundreds of attempts to clear. My suggestion is that Extremes are removed from all Duty Finder random matching queues outright, but it would only apply to Mentor Roulette.

you talk about groups that started progressing ex primals with min ilvl and that had no echo. People heavily outgear those fights nowadays, even when synced + you get the echo buff, which makes them mostly trivial and easy to teach

[Oakley]

you talk about groups that started progressing ex primals with min ilvl and that had no echo. People heavily outgear those fights nowadays, even when synced + you get the echo buff, which makes them mostly trivial and easy to teach

But, again, the comparison isn't accurate. Max item level sync and 5 stacks of echo mean nothing when groups can't time avoiding knockbacks in Titan, break stuns in Ramuh, and dodge cane/sword in Shiva. These kill people immediately regardless of item level; they're pure mechanics.

In appropriate mentor content, a mentor should be able to provide guidance while still mostly being able to carry the group. This is why mentoring works in normal Alexander and normal Omega; the fights are mechanic-intensive, so they benefit from a mentor's ability to teach, but not mechanically PUNISHING, unlike Extreme primals. In Alex and Omega, messing up a mechanic might kill you but not screw the group. That's the opposite of Extremes, where one person screwing up can cause a wipe. That's probably the biggest distinction and the best reason for removing Extremes from the roulette.

[ServerCollaps]

But, again, the comparison isn't accurate. Max item level sync and 5 stacks of echo mean nothing when groups can't time avoiding knockbacks in Titan, break stuns in Ramuh, and dodge cane/sword in Shiva. These kill people immediately regardless of item level; they're pure mechanics.

so you want new people to never learn those fights? Noone joins pf synced groups, so mentors from mentor roulette are the only way for them to get some help