Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Mavrias]

My argument is "the fight won't be faster" and by extension that the primary role of a dps is to make the fight as quick as possible. This is an important distinction. Fleche is a dps increase, but higher DPS does not always mean the fight is shorter.

Using an oGCD is not detracting from an AoE situation, especially one on as short a CD as Fleche. There is no point in saving dps cooldowns like that. And even your (poor) example isnt quite right. Your forgetting that mobs dying sooner because of things like Fleche and Jump and Steel Peak can give your tank a better window to stance dance and take some heat off the healer so theycan dps more easily as well.

[Iscah]

I’ll confess to being one of those people who “toss out cards more or less randomly” so far as picking which DPS to give damage boosts to. Healing is a full-time concentration on HP bars and my own actions so unless something unusually noticeable is going on, I won’t know who is doing the most damage. For lack of a better system (or easy choice of target), I’ll just give cards to a different person each time!

Some of the other cards are simpler - Bole on the tank of course, Spear on the bard if we have one, Arrow on casters?, Ewer/Spire straight into Royal Road and hope for a Balance...

...is it rude to be using the Arrow cards on myself?

[MoroMurasaki]

My argument is "the fight won't be faster" and by extension that the primary role of a dps is to make the fight as quick as possible. This is an important distinction. Fleche is a dps increase, but higher DPS does not always mean the fight is shorter.

Here is a simple example:
11 mobs have 10 hp each.
Player A consistently deals 1 AoE dmg per GCD
The fight ends in 10 GCDs.

Reset and add Player B.
Player B does single target dmg only
10 dmg per GCD
With both A and B damaging mobs, the fight ends in 10 GCDs

Reset and replace Player B with Player C.
Player C does a 1 dmg AoE, then goes AFK.
With both A and C damaging the mobs, fight ends in 9 GCDs.

Player B's DPS was higher than player C's DPS, but Player C's DPS caused the fight to be shorter.
Player B's fight technically had a dead mob faster, but in C's fight they were killed at a faster rate.

If you're using in an AoE fight as nothing but a DPS increase, you're not necessarily adding value.

Issues with this...

1. Fleche is oGCD, it costs nothing to cast. You could cast it while AoEing, it's just free damage.
2. Some enemies have more HP than others.
3. It needs it's own section here - [b]there is no situation where more dps during a pull is a bad thing[/i].
4. AoE does not damage all mobs equally anyways. Scatter might hit every enemy with the same potency but it may Crit one, DH another and Crit/DH a third. Things already don't die at the same rate.
5. You don't account for the defensive advantage of one enemy, no matter which it is, dying quicker. It means less tank damage which means less healer time and MP spent healing the tank.

You are beating a dead horse. You've been proved wrong every way possible. Let it go.

[ko_]

I did another testing but this time in a dungeon. I should just let it go but I just wanted to make sure it was not me.. and it's not. I'm not going to lie.. getting over that pet peeve is goign to take work cause yeah. Maybe I was fed wrong information but from what I've been told is if an astro is feeding you balances it's cause you're being op.. so to not get them makes me feel like I'm shit in dungeons and it doesn't feel good. And really doesn't feel good when you know you're doing everything you can to not be the bads. But I'll just learn to roll with whatever, Cause me venting about it won't change anything. If the replies here tell me anything. Tho I almost went to unlock astro on my own but that wouldn't do anything cause I'm sure I would suck as a healer. I know what I'm ok in.. and that's pressing buttons.. not trying to keep other people alive.

[SilverObi]

I did another testing but this time in a dungeon. I should just let it go but I just wanted to make sure it was not me.. and it's not. I'm not going to lie.. getting over that pet peeve is goign to take work cause yeah. Maybe I was fed wrong information but from what I've been told is if an astro is feeding you balances it's cause you're being op.. so to not get them makes me feel like I'm shit in dungeons and it doesn't feel good.

Don't let it get to you. As many have already replied there's many reasons beyond malice that an AST won't give you balance as a dps. Just keep doing what you can to improve your personal performance and ignore the slights real or imagined. Few pages ago I was complaining about DRGs not giving me the Eye buff as RDM even though I'm constantly in range of them so it's something that just happens. For a related AST story, back in 3.0 I always had Arrows thrown on my MNK which was interesting lol

[Awha]

Find Balance :smirk:

So you feel like shit because some random person did not toss a DPS buff on you? You are overthinking this, just take it in stride and just go through the roulette. People have their own systems when it comes to handing out cards, for example as I mentioned before one Astro I know only gives cards to the lowest dps, another gives the cards to their friend if that means a tank guess who is getting that card.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Im not going to be able to hold off a good DPS who goes ham on a single mob who has been hit with a single flash / shield lob, unless i pulls small. If a good dps wants to pull off me during a large pull, they're be able too. There is no reason for them to go ham, for the same reason there's no reason for them to be doing their single target rotation in an AoE situation.

A good DPS wouldn't be going ham though. Samurai try to get their buffs up during pulls since it's a DPS loss otherwise. Likewise, Red Mage tries to proc their single target casts for a jump start in mana. A single Unleash or Overpower in Tank Stance holds hate over both easily, and by the time it may become an issue, I'll be set up to Abyssal Drain/Inner Release spam. If something does pull away, it's no big deal. A single mob or two does pitiful amounts of damage.

It's not about holding hate, it's about doing things that are useful. A healer could hit me with cure II during while im at full hp, it doesnt mean that they should or are adding any benefit. Fleche is usually not useful during a pull because it typically will not result in a decrease in fight time. Bard DoTs are because the AoE dps increase that occurs after the pull will help reduce fight time

It's incredibly useful for a Samurai to have Shifu and Jinpu buffs active, and equally useful for a Red Mage to start a mass pull with a higher mana gauge as they can do their Melee AoE faster.

[JohnnyDevo]

-snip-

My favorite part about all that is that warrior's tank stance is generally the least effective stance. It doesn't reduce incoming damage, and it only increasing incoming healing magic -- not healing abilities.

[Metalwrath]

Even a crit fleche wont overide aggro on for example an overpowered mob if warrior is making a super pull.
The issue lies with when especially bards nuke half a mob hp on the way pulling.For some reason bards i encounter are too stupid to switch target.This is the only time i ever lose aggro on a big pull/

[JohnnyDevo]

-napkin math-

Lemme give a more realistic example.


Healer, DPS A, DPS B, and Tank all have aoe abilities that deal 2, 2, 2, and 1 damage respectively. The mobs have 50 HP.

Situation 1:
Everyone does nothing during the pull and only uses AoE abilities.
The mobs die in 8 GCDs

Situation 2:
Healer applies dots on every mob during the pull for 3 damage.
DPS 1 applies dots on every mob during the pull for 4 damage.
DPS 2 taps different mobs during the pull for 3 damage each
Tank keeps the gcd rolling and uses shield lob every gcd for a total of 2 damage per mob
DPS 1 and 2 use their single-target ogcd abilities on the mobs, splitting the damage apart properly, for a total of 3 damage per mob
Pull concludes, mobs clump up, aoe starts.
The mobs die in 5 gcds