"Toxic"? or Just advice you don't want to hear?

[HyoMinPark]

I think the main issue is that, people don’t like being called out when they make a mistake, and instead of humbly accepting advice, they tend to lash out. Because Heaven forbid! that they are wrong, or doing something incorrectly/inefficiently. You can be as nice as you can be and even use smiley emotes to try and soften your advice, and some people will still respond with hostility, or act like you just insulted their mother or some nonsense. And it all boils down to exactly what I said: people don’t like their mistakes being brought to their attention, and perceive it as a personal attack as opposed to advice. This can be particularly bad if you’re giving them advice for their “main job”.

Not everyone acts this way, mind you. But I think the majority do, and it’s one of the reasons I stay more or less silent in duties (although, I can get testy with DPS that refuse to AOE trash packs, especially if I’m already in a bad mood, because that just grinds my gears). When you’ve been called “an elitist” for just telling someone “Try reapplying Straight Shot every 30 seconds, because it gives you a boost to critical hit, and BRDs love crit” or “Use Iron Jaws to refresh DoTs rather than reapplying them; it saves you a GCD that you could spent on something else”, you get a bit tired of it all.

[Fredco191]

Here's the thing:

I'm not sure either...

[Canadane]

first off you can edit your post to get past the 1000 charicter limit

Hey he didn't ask for your genuinely helpful advise. Let's not turn this into another toxic thread.

[Joe777]

Honestly I think the problem here isn't the tone, it's the advice. "You should use Holy more" is not always good advice. I main WHM and from what you said I'm willing to bet I don't use Holy as much as you'd want me to. If you told me to use Holy more in a dungeon, I'd probably be annoyed too.

I only use Holy sometimes myself, usually to proc the stun to help mitigate damage. I wouldn't actually spam it unless I had Thin Air up. I'm a fan of preserving my MP when DPSing so I have enough handy to heal with as need be.

[Talraen]

I think the main issue is that, people don’t like being called out when they make a mistake, and instead of humbly accepting advice, they tend to lash out. Because Heaven forbid! that they are wrong, or doing something incorrectly/inefficiently. You can be as nice as you can be and even use smiley emotes to try and soften your advice, and some people will still respond with hostility, or act like you just insulted their mother or some nonsense. And it all boils down to exactly what I said: people don’t like their mistakes being brought to their attention, and perceive it as a personal attack as opposed to advice. This can be particularly bad if you’re giving them advice for their “main job”.

Not everyone acts this way, mind you. But I think the majority do, and it’s one of the reasons I stay more or less silent in duties (although, I can get testy with DPS that refuse to AOE trash packs, especially if I’m already in a bad mood, because that just grinds my gears). When you’ve been called “an elitist” for just telling someone “Try reapplying Straight Shot every 30 seconds, because it gives you a boost to critical hit, and BRDs love crit” or “Use Iron Jaws to refresh DoTs rather than reapplying them; it saves you a GCD that you could spent on something else”, you get a bit tired of it all.

Another factor is whether you are advising someone to make them competent or optimal. For instance, I had a red mage in a party who was only doing melee attacks. I pointed out that they could be doing a lot more damage using spells as well, and they did. Basically, they had no idea what they were doing, and I tried to help. If someone like that gets testy, I'll probably ignore it or just leave.

On the other hand, I think advice like yours on Straight Shot or Iron Jaws is much more likely to give offense despite being excellent advice. Some people just aren't that interested in saving a GCD, or are being lazy, or are learning the job, or whatever, and just react poorly. To some degree, the type of person that wants that advice probably doesn't need it because they probably bothered to read what their abilities do. In these cases I always just stay silent, because I've rarely seen it end well to give this kind of advice. That doesn't improve the player base, but it keeps me sane, so meh.

[Gin_Gray]

Kind of given up when it comes to DF advice, damned if you do damned if you don't. Got called an elitist by a 1,2,3 non-positional mnk who parsed(which confused me because you use it to improve) and all I said was "gotta hit positionals for full potency". Yeah it's a one off situation but it stuff like that why I just save advice/comments to FC or sprouts willing to learn.

[RiyahArp]

I argued with Thirdchild over this in Pvp. My points then are that the problem with advice is:

1. As random stranger guy in a roulette, you don't have the authority or standing to give advice. Imagine if someone walked up to you on the street and criticized your fashion. To a lesser extent, it's similar. Ideally FCs should be doing this, because you have a relationship with them.
2. Generally people give advice at the worst times, like right after a galling failure. People need time to process failure and emotions, then they may be receptive. You just lost a pvp match, and its your fault; the last thing someone should do is immediately msg you with advice on how to not do that.

[Linx0r]

@ OP,
I can't believe people think of themselves as so egocentric as to point out others flaws and tell them about it, especially if it's in a GAME. If you are raiding, the constructive criticism is expected, but really, you feel you NEED to tell people what they did wrong? Maybe ASK before TELLING. It's super rude for people to just go off on someone else. If you are just that type of person that NEEDS to tell people what they are doing wrong, maybe you are in the wrong and have some work to do on your personality in being sensitive towards others.

No way is this a shot at you, but many many people feel they are doing good by 'telling' people what to do rather than wording it in a polite way what they did wrong (and asking first).

at the end of the day, most people won't listen to you anyway and will get their backs up against the wall for well, many reasons, just like you feel the need to point out their flaws.

ask nicely, and explain nicely

[Aivi_lo]

"Instead of humbly accepting advice" made me lmao

[Ametrine]

I had a run last night in Braflox normal. After noticing the AST hadn't sect'd up, the MNK (with Bahamut Ultimate fists) used Auto-translate to ask if the AST knew about the Sect system.

Silence, and we keep progressing.

I explained it's a big boost and adds a regen to aspected spells.

Silence, more of the same.

I then mention that since we're in Bray, this may be the first party instance they've used AST, and as long as no one is dying, we'll be fine.

And we were.


To be honest, not sure which is more frustrating on my end, responding badly to advice or not responding at all as if you never said anything , but the fact that since the rest of us were doing fine and the AST was healing, DPSing, and relegating cards a bit, it was really tough for us to look at that and say they were a bad player. :/