My Opinion on XIV's Gear Progression

[Cidel]

Taking my quote out of context.

Except not really. While I'm fully aware that you're addressing the OP with that slightly rhetorical question; in the context of this game, amusingly, the answer leans more towards "no" far more than it leans towards "of course." Because we fully expect BiS gear to be replaced so quickly, in the span of a few months no less, I'd wager most are practically numb to the idea of old raid gear being outdated halfway to the new level cap of an expansion.


In any case, I don't actually agree with the OP's stance on FFXI's gearing model vs FFXIV's, but the premise of the aggressive vertical progression here always seems like a topic worth talking about (most recent discussion here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-do-this-again ). I'd like to think there's a "sweet spot" between XI and XIV's rather extreme ends, if XI's model is to be mentioned at all.

[Altena]

Except not really. While I'm fully aware that you're addressing the OP with that slightly rhetorical question; in the context of this game, amusingly, the answer leans more towards "no" far more than it leans towards "of course." Because we fully expect BiS gear to be replaced so quickly, in the span of a few months no less, I'd wager most are practically numb to the idea of old raid gear being outdated halfway to the new level cap of an expansion.


In any case, I don't actually agree with the OP's stance on FFXI's gearing model vs FFXIV's, but the premise of the aggressive vertical progression here always seems like a topic worth talking about (most recent discussion here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-do-this-again ). I'd like to think there's a "sweet spot" between XI and XIV's rather extreme ends, if XI's model is to be mentioned at all.

Appears I am the one that misunderstood in that regard then. Apologies.

Appears we agree on pretty much everything.

I also don't entirely agree with XIV's system. Especially in a game where you can play multiple jobs on one character, while bound to a rigid lockout system.

Though I don't agree with the OP in the sense that XI's system was inherently floored in a very large number of ways, and many of those ways were specific to the very things the OP highlighted.

[Cidel]

Appears I am the one that misunderstood in that regard then. Apologies.

Appears we agree on pretty much everything.

I also don't entirely agree with XIV's system. Especially in a game where you can play multiple jobs on one character, while bound to a rigid lockout system.

Though I don't agree with the OP in the sense that XI's system was inherently floored in a very large number of ways, and many of those ways were specific to the very things the OP highlighted.

No worries, I admit to hand-picking just one thought out of your entire post and didn't really elaborate on it. So my fault for being ambiguous there.

I try to avoid these XI and XIV comparisons nowadays, but I do think there are some ideas worth looking at from XI; just not totally emulating them because of the obvious conflicting content models and modern playstyles and habits. In XI you hoarded equipment for years either because no new gear in that slot for x particular job was worth working towards or it was the only equipment to boost even just one to several skills/spells during battle, and not much else. That obviously isn't relevant to XIV, so the concept of complete horizontal progression is pointless. For XIV, its as you said, we have multiple jobs we can play (and doing so is far more accessible in XIV than XI), but the strict-ish lockouts hold back fully taking advantage of that feature. Or something.

[Maero]

Gear becomes obsolete rather fast (crafted is even worst i think) so i say do not overthink it, just get what you can and carry on.
Up until SB i have often just got crafted gear as rng in this game is a bitch, now i know better and do not even bother.

[Remedi]

I'd say that crafted at least has more value than normal raid or even primal weapons especially considering SB gave us a generous amount of materias.

Frankly speaking atm normal raid gear and 24 man raid gear too, have the problem of beign extremely obsolete, since normal raid gear is gated by weekly tokens (with chest taking the exorbitant time of 4 weeks) when you can have crafted set day 1 if you want to put the effort in it with also the fact that you can pentameld.
Not to mention that getting into crafting range for the crafted gear is not even that hard nowadays since the recipes are macroable if you have the stats (which are affordable to most).

As for 24 man......well since savage is easier now ppl will get to odd patches with already some pieces from it rendeing that gear useless and then if odd x.x8 pathces keep releasing the weekly lock from savage it won't get any better.

Ironically dungeon gear is better than ever because the gear from dungeons can allow you to skip tomestones gear and getting you in normal mode raids but maybe that's just me and hey at least they can become materias or GC seals

[Usho]

We are also on the same server.. However I absolutely disagree with you, and I am not "white knighting".Highlighting why the XI system was inherently bad. I think people look at that game with rose tinted glasses.

Yes, I know who you are, and I once again see the reason why I'm glad I blacklisted you in game.*sigh* Okay...so first off, XI's gear progression had more "feeling". Not just in achievement of getting it, but also that it could last you for YEARS even after new gear comes out. XIV's gear progression system is: "Grind this, Get it, use it for 3-4 months, throw it out, grind for new gear, repeat." Gear gets outdated and irrelevant so quick that it makes the grind pointless and there's no sense of achievement in getting any gear in this game, and none has any lasting effect outside of some glamour pieces. XI's system is bad? Haha...no

[Usho]

I actually had this conversation with someone in NN yesterday.. And you even used a similar point that was brought up. We are also on the same server.. Hmm not sure if related but anyways, thought it was worth mentioning.


However I absolutely disagree with you, and I am not "white knighting". I am saying this from the perspective of highlighting why the XI system was inherently badHowever I think people look at that game with rose tinted glasses.

Continued...

And yes, I think you are White Knighting and I think you see XIV though "rose tinted glasses". XI had it's flaws as well but not as much as some of XIV's very obvious flaws. If you like the treadmill yoshi made, good for you, but anyone who isn't inflicted with the blind status aliment can see how s*** the gear progression system in 14 is. I love this game btw, to all the trolls who think I don't. But just because I love a game, doesn't mean I can't point out it's flaws.


Thanks for reading. *Back to Dailies*

[Nora_of_Mira]

But just because I love a game, doesn't mean I can't point out it's flaws.

but that's all you're doing (besides jerking off a 16 year old game and getting people riled up over a dead horse).

[Delily]

I guess it's an unpopular opinion, but why people take getting gear as absolute endgame goal?

Your point is actually correct, we'd have to blame previous MMOs (and MUDs) for this mindset where gear is the endgame. In those games, once you hit level cap, there wasn't much to do except large scale encounters. The best gear dropped from them, but it took months of farming to get it, so gear became a way to flag in game how awesome your character was. It became a status symbol, something you "worked" for (people talking about "working" in video games always amuses me), so you could show it off to people. XI was no exception to this rule. People will literally spends millions of gear on a +1 item that boosts their stats by a single point, just to have the "best" character.

What people seem to disregard is why gear exists in the first place. It should be obvious, but I'll state it: gear exists to as a soft leveling system to enable the developers to create more challenging encounters. Gear is, and always has been, a means to end, to enable your character to perform well in the most challenging content. That's it. Using FFXI, what good is having a AM3 Nirvana and full +1 Austeres if the player just sits around in Jeuno? Sure, he'll get some people are impressed, but honestly, who cares? It has no impact on their game play. The funny thing about gear, by the way, is that the player base always optimizes for the meta. WoW developers learned this. The gear in Vanilla WoW had all sorts of nifty bonuses and stats and people always just picked the best build and the gear that boosted it. Its the illusion of choice (although I will point out such an illusion does make the game more fun for players). The same with talent trees. People just picked the few builds that were optimized and ran with that.

The designers of the game have made the encounters the prime focus, and not the gear. Why are NeoExdeath and God Kefka only available in Savage? To reward the players who take up that challenge with a new challenge. It also motivates people to engage in Savage Content (it did for me, at least). I would like to see some long term gear, like relics, but I don't think we should a piece of gear you use for years without changing.

[ChloeGrace]

Some things in XI were just stupidly game-breaking. End-game weapons available for use at 50 (cross-counters) or 55 (E-bow). A 2 ebow ranger party on colibri was filthy experience compared to the regular grind.
Some were practically required - emperor's pin, scorpion harness, haubergeon/hauberk. The upside was that crafting for end-game was actually useful in XI. Sure, it was hard as hell to acquire raw materials like damascus ingots and v-claw when bot claiming was rampant and unchecked, but it gave much more of a sense of accomplishment when you finally did get it.
Granted, I left when the cap was still 75. but it had the exact opposite of XIV's gearing system. XIV would do well to emulate XI's system in that respect - allow NQ items to be melded to reach cap but with greater difficulty, and make end-game crafted gear 5-10 ilevels below raid gear that require raw materials that are challenging to acquire.