Black Mage Job Changes Wishlist for 4.25 or 4.3

[Remedi]

I'd advise dropping the stacks to procs idea, if they agreed to it they would've already done it since it's a 2.x requiest, imho the changes they've made about procs is to use them on movements and in the TC cause just when you enter umbral, which also alleviates the umbral mana tick problem giving you 2 ways to circumvent it.
Frankly they could simply fix the mana tick, but I believe that they cannot do that because of infrstructure problems, it would also explain why speed increases the dmg of the dots instead of their frequency

Edit: besides what BLM really needs now is a valid reason to be in a group, which doesn't really needs to be dps related or anything

[Gorb]

Thundercloud procs stacking isn't quite about the DPS aspect of it. It would end up being more damage since you'd use more of them, which is nice, but the reason it's desirable isn't because of the DPS increase but more for the fact that overwriting procs feels really awful. Having to choose between mucking up your Fire phase to get a TC proc out or letting the proc sit and potentially fall off/get overwritten... It sucks. It's not a fun risk vs. reward decision or a fun "oh geez gotta adjust my rigid rotation for this huh?" keep-you-on-your-toes thing, it just sucks. In my experience TC procs are rarely convenient. Usually I gotta swiftcast fire 1 or rely on a FS proc being there or somethin' and it just sucks. What about the times when TC procs right as you cast Thunder in your UI phase, on the very last tick? Just generally, getting a proc and then sitting there sweating bullets and hoping you don't see a second "+Thundercloud" pop up before you've used it just ain't fun.

Also, pretty much the only valid reason BLM is ever gonna have for being in a group is "the player is skilled and prefers this job." It's just how the physical buff/utility cookie is crumbling right now. If you want a real reason for BLM to be in a group they need to either demolish NIN/DRG and dismantle the dominant composition, or overbuff SMN/RDM/BLM. Both of which aren't great solutions, but one of which will probably happen eventually.

[Seraphor]

How about a trait (maybe post 70 in 5.0) that upgrades your thundercloud procs?

It increases the chance to 30% (10% for AoEs) and allows stacking (simple stacks displayed on the enhancements bar, no job gauge additions)
Each stack resets the timer, so you'll almost always have an ever increasing thundercloud conveyer belt that doesn't overwrite.
Each additional stack adds 10% potency to TC when you use it.
Plus after at least 3 stacks it adds a paralysis effect to the first hit of TC.
Max of 3 stacks (+30%) or 5 (+50%)?

[Remedi]

Thundercloud procs stacking isn't quite about the DPS aspect of it. It would end up being more damage since you'd use more of them, which is nice, but the reason it's desirable isn't because of the DPS increase but more for the fact that overwriting procs feels really awful.

This suggestion has been going around since 2.x and so far devs have shown no interest in implementing it.

As such it means 2 things imho: Either they don't agree or simply the game can't allow such thing (and believe me this engine is not allowing MANY things) Maybe in the future once they finally drop every last remnants of 1.0 we'll finally get nice things, but so far none

As for the valid reason to have a BLM in a group, consider that SMN and RDM can still be valuable even if melee/double ranged are better in some cases as such BLM (and SAM) need something that makes them stand out

[Ordoric]

is it me or for yoshi-p's favorite job blm feels lack luster. just being a fire turret does not give me the fantasy of being a spell flinging wizard. or even manipulating aether. syntax not with standing AM should change our limited spell cast to slightly different effects example being flare and freeze give a dot burn or frost respectivley or let thundercloud proc Burst damage. and allow us to actually teleport like shikuchi to a point we diamante. it keeps us in a pure dps role but we get some flare with the job allowing us to be more tactical

[Gorb]

The main reason SMN and RDM are seen as more valuable than BLM and SAM is the fact they can raise. That's really about it. SMN does have the extra benefit of being able to burst really hard in Trick Attack windows, yes, but it's not as important as being able to salvage an otherwise doomed run by Raising a healer.
By the way, I don't want a raise on BLM. It does not fit the job's identity at all. In fact, Yoshi P has stated that any utility being added to BLM will necessitate massive DPS decrease, so let's just not do that.

Aetherial Manipulation did function like Shukuchi once upon a time. It was a "true teleport" even, and could go up ledges and across gaps. It was really easy to go out of bounds with it, so they changed it to what it is now. I'd love it if they reverted the change, but they won't.

[EllieShadeflare]

The main reason SMN and RDM are seen as more valuable than BLM and SAM is the fact they can raise. That's really about it. SMN does have the extra benefit of being able to burst really hard in Trick Attack windows, yes, but it's not as important as being able to salvage an otherwise doomed run by Raising a healer.
By the way, I don't want a raise on BLM. It does not fit the job's identity at all. In fact, Yoshi P has stated that any utility being added to BLM will necessitate massive DPS decrease, so let's just not do that.

Not just that, but SMN and RDM can also utilize a DPS buff (Devotion, Contagion and Radiant Shield for SMN, Embolden for RDM) which allows them to contribute more than an equivalently skilled BLM. With that said, anyone dying tends to end a run anyway, since it'll reduce DPS to a point that could negate beating DPS checks and the enrage.

[Remedi]

The main reason SMN and RDM are seen as more valuable than BLM and SAM is the fact they can raise. That's really about it. SMN does have the extra benefit of being able to burst really hard in Trick Attack windows, yes, but it's not as important as being able to salvage an otherwise doomed run by Raising a healer.
By the way, I don't want a raise on BLM. It does not fit the job's identity at all. In fact, Yoshi P has stated that any utility being added to BLM will necessitate massive DPS decrease, so let's just not do that.

I think I wasted too much time on how and why BLM shouldn't get a raise but what I meant is that besides dmg there no reason to bring BLM, there's nothing saying that a BLM could help the group better in a certain occasion, RDM can bring a raise, SMN can bring dps buffs and a raise.

The reason why the double ranged meta is used is not just that they do higher total dmg, but you also get double refreshment, tactician, palisade ecc..even if BLM were to do marginally more dps than a double ranged meta you might prefer using another ranged not for the dps added but for the tools added, that's why BLM and SAM need something in that sector

[Shiroe]

blm needs a magic vun buff/debuff of 3-5%, as long as its thunder dots tick on the target

(like drg piercing vun buff or the nin/sam/ war slashing vun buff)

no extra timer needed to track, since it lines up with the thunder dot timer (easy to track for players ... and easy to implement for the devs)

and since physical dps get so many buffs, some if which blm seldomly get to use (dragon sight) or never can use (brootherhood, embolden), its only fair to give blm and casters an extra buff too

and that is fair, since sam have a slashing vun buff/debuff too

...

otherwise, imo blm do NOT need a "rez" or any other utility..., just a magic vun buff/debuff on its thunder dots, and without changing or nerfing anything else on the blm

[Sylvain]

blm needs a magic vun buff/debuff of 3-5%,

No it doesn't because even 5% would not make a caster meta. You still need melee which wouldn't benefit from it (spare NIN, but 5% on his mudra isn't game breaking)
You still want a BRD/MCH for the refresh which also don't benefit from it (maybe BRD dots)

And again, you don't solve the problem. Let say it would be 10% and thats enough to make a caster comp nearly equal to the usual melee comp.

You just made a new meta comp. BLM still doesn't (optimally) fit any group that isn't made around caster because he either doesn't benefit from mêlee buff or his buff doesn't benefit melee.

And this is the core of the problem. Buff/debuff split into 2 categories.

The reason Nin is welcomed in all group is because it is a self sufficient job (it can apply its own debuff without loosing dps) and his trick attack buffs everyone.

Make trick attack physical only. Boom you just removed SMN as a potential meta filler.
Make trick attack magic only, NIN isn't meta anymore unless a caster meta works.
Apply this kind of stupid splitting to any current buff/debuff and you make group more homogenized, player will simply stack the one damage type they can buff.
Same for SMN, make devotion magical only and it will loose a lot of sex appeal

this is what piercing and slashing does, it's separate some jobs from other jobs. And you want to include a new debuff type? I mean, we're lucky LB raises slow if you stack job otherwise the meta would probly br around x2 In DRG BRD and x2 SCH

I know comparing to other games isn't a good thing, but there's a reason WoW struggled so much with dps and group balance. They simply couldnt balance buffs. You always had some optimal composition. And they solved the problem very easily, no more buff. Everyone is self sufficient. I don't say Ff14 has to go as far, but there are things that should be removed, and damage type is one of those things.