Quote Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo View Post
So weird that people criticize "modern" questing design then go on to praise games like FFXI or EQ, where leveling basically consisted of semi-afking endless mob train grinds using minimal abilities because resource regeneration in those games was very poor (playing a mage in most of them was bloody MISERABLE). Sure, you were required to group up, but no one was actually required to talk any more than you're required to make conversation in Duty Finder now, and sometimes people did and sometimes they didn't (and if they did it was to convey utilitarian stuff like "Feign Death on CD need a few seconds before pull").

I think the biggest difference in gaming that we're seeing now is mostly that the rewards aren't lasting because developers have learned that making massive exclusivity gaps hurts their bottom line. Whether its gear rewards, or level/exp rewards (as in, prestige from being a very high-level character in FFXI/EQ), those sorts of things seem insurmountable to someone with a family/job and MMO developers still want those dollars from those sorts of people. I don't think modern games are any worse than "oldschool" ones depending on how you look at it. I have more time now so I could definitely get behind sinking my teeth into something like FFXI (not paying a sub for it though, make it b2p or something and I'm there), but back when I worked 48 hour weeks FFXIV was enough gameplay for me, along with some MOBA matches or console games like Persona 5 on the side.
I never semi-AFK'd mob trains in FFXI, speaking personally. And I very much appreciated the ability to actually talk to people. Case in point, over my time in FFXI, I met at least half-a-dozen people that I'm still friends with roughly a decade later. I didn't meet them by chatting in some random throwaway Linkshell; I met them in parties, and then added them to my FL, and then partied together some more, and then started running content with. It was natural, and organic, and something entirely missing from FFXIV, where the only meaningful socializing happens via the 2018 equivalent of early internet chat rooms.

As to the quality, modern titles are absolutely worse than the older ones, at least in regards to MMOs. The modern MMO works, essentially, like a very large mobile game. There's little depth or challenge, beyond a few exceedingly difficult grinds or made-for-difficulty optional fights. It's easy to accumulate in-game currency; it's easy to level-up, and sometimes able to be purchased; the storylines are simplistic and easily grasped; there's never a question of where to go or who to talk to in order to complete a quest. Combat is typically reactive rather than strategic, twitchy rather than mental.

Old-school MMOs were built very differently. And, because of this, they demanded more of the player in order to really be enjoyed. The payoff, however, was vastly greater than anything a modern MMO can muster. They aren't even in the same league. Saying the modern MMO and the old-school MMO are just as good as each other, is somewhat like saying that Jerry Bruckheimer is as good a director as Stanley Kubrick. Bruckheimer's films might be fun popcorn flicks, but in no way are they equivalently "good" films to those made by Kubrick; they're simply more accessible to a wider audience.

Quote Originally Posted by Maeka View Post
^^
This.

WoW questing is infinitely better than FFXI questing. FFXIV is actually based upon WoW, so it seems kinda silly to say "I don't like WoW, but I play FFXIV" and then name Questing as one of the reasons as to why.
You mean FFXIV questing* for that first part, no? FFXI actually released before WoW did.