Fending Accessories Strength Gain

[Kabooa]

I'd consider myself in that minority as well. Obvious problem being the 7 or 8-tank comps (why bring a dps that can die to everything?). But it seems like it would be fairly easy to simply code the DF for not accepting those kind of parties by default (make it a checkbox option like unsynced & reduce or eliminate rewards for "special comps"), problem solved. That way people can still do crazy comps if they want, just no reward for doing it in relevant content.

This seems like the reason party finder exists, and would be unneeded work. The game already allows you to do whatever silly thing you want without penalty, just not with randos.

[FallenWings]

How to make DD classes more valuable in a game balance where tanks can reach DD level DPS:

Make DD's possess the heavier raid DPS boosts.

i.e

Base line:
Tank - 90
DPS - 100 + 10per member(Raid Boosting)

"7 Tank Comp"
Tankx7 = 630 Rdps

Proper Comp (2, 2, 4)
Tankx2 = 180
DPSx4 = 400
Raid Buffing from DPS = 40 x(Per member) = 240
Total RDPS = 820

Add Healer's DPS if desired:
Healer = 90(+40 ea in DPS comp)

7tank = 710rdps
Normal = 1080

Even with the lightest buff of 10 still puts the normal DPS influenced comp 30% ahead. Add more weight and that gap widens even more.

TL: DR It's a numbers thing that can enable the concept.

[Kabooa]

How to make DD classes more valuable in a game balance where tanks can reach DD level DPS:

Make DD's possess the heavier raid DPS boosts..

Might as well make the DD's capable of tanking the boss then.

Oh, and everyone should just heal themselves.

[FallenWings]

Might as well make the DD's capable of tanking the boss then.

Oh, and everyone should just heal themselves.

I too like going for extremes. /s

Atleast with the proposed gameplay change there would be more individual tank impact so that players could feel like they're worth more than a bot that presses a necessary button or two every 90/180/500 seconds because the game arbitrarily makes it so.

Oh but, you know, playing a TANK is just so HARD. We shouldn't force them to also partake in an aspect of the game that has a substantially higher skill ceiling and more rewarding outcome with a an actual appreciable effect beyond the required minimum. :eyeroll:

But clearly, everyone enjoys being a walking meatshield with no real threat in game nor from a immersion perspective.

Tanks are so POPULAR! /s /s /s /s /s

[Kabooa]

I too like going for extremes. /s

Atleast with the proposed gameplay change there would be more individual tank impact so that players could feel like they're worth more than a bot that presses a necessary button or two every 90/180/500 seconds because the game arbitrarily makes it so.

And that doesn't change in your suggestion. In fact, no amount of gameplay changes in your suggestion. You just create a different requirement to justify the 2/4/2 party composition, and increase the damage a tank does, for no other reason than you find 5k less fun than 9k.

[Shurrikhan]

Might as well make the DD's capable of tanking the boss then.

Oh, and everyone should just heal themselves.

I'd actually be fine with that, if in very limited frequencies. At least you lay the groundwork for players being able to skillfully redistribute and rotate about incoming damage and effects in the absence of a tank, rather than facing, then and there, inevitable death to a "composition debuff".

Personally, I'd like to see tanks have slightly less HP, but greater defense(s), making them yet more efficient to heal without being the only ones who can survive what is still, to them, only mediocre damage.

More broadly speaking:
I'm actually pretty happy with where Tank DPS is right now. It's a powerful and worthwhile tool, but it isn't yet strong enough to warrant taking a third tank, despite it's indirect contribution -- while less able to benefit from gear as damage-dealing does (much like that of healer's as while healing can be done faster for more dps globals, the healing needed is capped and further reduced by tanks -- being decently sizeable over progression (well, less so for DRK). Ideally, even if a 2/4/2 is the intended allotment in a game, then every option one removed from it, too, should be just a hair off from viable. 1 Tank and 3 healers, 3 tanks and 1 healer, or even 1 tank, 1 healer, and, say, 3 defense-supportive DPS among the 6. Gimmicks

I may rethink that though if the new spikes in parse height currently limited to Monks and BLMs (e.g. 7.4k on O6S) reaches the others, though. 4.2 to 4.9k and 7.4k are pretty far divorced when considering the rDPS a tank can contribute outside of, again, that "composition check'. 4.5 to 5.8, though, sounds reasonable enough. An extra 20+% total DPS (personal + bonus) is a pretty huge difference.

[whiskeybravo]

This seems like the reason party finder exists, and would be unneeded work. The game already allows you to do whatever silly thing you want without penalty, just not with randos.

I was attempting to make a distinction between pre-made parties and "special" comp parties. Yes, at current you can ignore DF requirements with a pre-made party. What I was trying to suggest (if we are looking at a situation where tank dps = dd dps) is to take that away and make it an option like Undersized parties that removes loot/exp/gil etc. So if you wanted to faceroll savage with 8 tanks you can do that, but there won't be any rewards.

[Nedkel]

Does 1 str and several vitality points are worth those 76 points of crit/det/dh?
Lets take for example ryumyakku necklace and crafted necklace, the ryumayakku has 18 vit more, 1 str, 133 det, 93 crit, where crafted brings skillspeed and only 86 determination, there is no point in getting crafted am i right?

As DRK i want as less skillspeed as it is possible, since i dont benefit from it so much as i do from det or crit. It does not affect my CD's, only 1-2-3 combo and maybe quietus, but thats not too much.

I believe it all depends on who are you playing and how.
At least necklace is not worth pentamelding. :f

[whiskeybravo]

snip

It's a relatively minuscule difference either way. Vit aside, you're gaining 1 str for -58 secondary stats. Skillspeed may not be great for Drk, personally I don't think a little bit hurts for practical reasons, but the secondary stats would be "worth" more than the str. Plus, it's cumulative in a way. If you have all 5 pentamelded pieces you're looking at +290 in secondary stats compared to +5 str from raid/tome gear.

[Booden]

The other thing is that the extra vit doesn't even matter, outside of something like Ultimate Coil of bahamut. Food and proper mitigation cover the hp you're missing just fine.