Quick Analysis: Mage changes and Final Fantasy Tradition.

[Tetsaru]

While I also agree with the OP, I think it's important not to change CNJ and THM so drastically that players that are used to only playing one or the other don't experience a sudden role-reversal that upsets everything that they're used to in terms of gameplay... kinda like what happened with GLA and MRD in terms of who was the better tank - I was used to GLA, but now I have to level MRD because I can't parry with a shield equipped anymore, or hold hate unless I'm spamming Storm's Path? Really??

I don't play CNJ or THM very often (I only leveled them to get the good Cure and buff spells for my GLA to tank better, lol), but as of right now, CNJ to me seems like it's trying to do everything mage-wise (access to all the elemental spells, healing spells, multiple DoT's, some buffs and debuffs), while THM seems a bit gimped in comparison (Banish/Scourge serve to improve Astral/Umbral damage, which has yet to be fully explained in regards to the elements; Sacrifice is the only healing spell that can target allies and is no longer AoE, Drain only works for yourself; the Absorb spells also only work for yourself until you use Initiation, etc.).

With that in mind, here's a list of possible changes to these jobs I could happening:

1 - Give both CNJ/White Mage and THM/Black Mage access to all 6 elements. CNJ/White Mage does Astral damage with all of their spells, while THM/Black Mage does Umbral damage with theirs. I could see Holy and Meteor tying in well with this, if implemented.

2 - Give both CNJ/White Mage and THM/Black Mage access to all 6 elements. THM/Black Mage gets spells that do burst damage (Fire, Ice, Thunder, Water, Stone, Aero), while CNJ/White Mage gets DoT spells (Burn, Frost, Shock, Drown, Rasp, Choke). Although both jobs need to avoid pulling aggro, I think this setup would allow White Mages to still be able to do damage in between heals without incurring too much enmity or outperforming Black Mages in terms of burst damage.

3 - Completely new spells for each job. CNJ/White Mage gets things like Benediction, Auto-Raise, Holy, Reflect, Barrier, Shield, etc. THM/Black Mage gets Comet, Meteor, Armageddon, Ultima, improved ancient magic spells, etc.

4 - Keep the current proposed changes, then later add new Disciples of Magic (Red Mage, Blue Mage, Time Mage, Sage, Summoner, Arcanist, Scholar, etc.) to make use of spells/abilities that may have been removed. In the meantime, revise the current elemental "wheel" if necessary, and don't leave players in the dark about how spells, elements, polarities, moon phases, the in-game calendar, and everything else works in relation to each other.

Any thoughts? My ideas probably aren't the best in the world, but SE kinda shot themselves in the foot in terms of how they're going to "fix" this, lol...

[grandm]

this is what i wrote in another thread, this is why i think mages are the like this for 1.20 onwards copy/paste

i always thought CON would make the better blackmage, if for no other reason than the lore, but it comes as no surprise that CON got white. since 1.18 it has been quite easy to see with all cures going to CON. this does not mean that CON the class is not elementalist it still has its lore steeped in Grid, job is whitemage class is CON 2 different things

for awhile now THM has been the second choice healer when creating a party, this is not going to change after 1.20, THM has been getting ready for its direction as magic DD, which is what it will be after 1.20. ok so the argument is CON can use magic DD spells as well tho. but we don't know the traits of each class, i can quite easy see THM having insane magic attack potency, i wouldn't be surprised if CONs nukes are stronger with a THM, (i know this goes against what we were told about cross class abilities being less affective with other classes. but offensive spells work with magic damage potency)

i believe debuffs were taken away for 2 reasons 1) one they were broken, and nobody used them. 2) they are one school of magic and cry out for their own class, we need more mages and what better spells to give an arcanist. give the team some time to make a new mage with these DEbuffs. and with any luck they will work properly next time we see them.

now the bit of your post i bolded. who said this is not how it is going to work, in my opinion this is exactly how it will work. you put a job stone on you gain abilities but you lose some, we are told class can be for solo but job is only for party. if you add a job stone and gain 5 more abilities but don't lose any how would this stop you from playing solo? if anything it would make solo easyier

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

Inb4 lolQake.

I think FF13 was the first FF game where debuffs were worth their use in many scenarios.

Spells like Slep, Rub, Qake, Bane, Zap!, and XXXX.
Or Poison... It seemed like encounters weren't built around the party using these to stop the enemy. Versus a twofold spell like Virus that deals damage and quickly depletes life.

Qake has already arrived!

Unless you're looking for an lolQake, in which case... I have no appropriate response.

[Tetsaru]

Qake has already arrived!

Unless you're looking for an lolQake, in which case... I have no appropriate response.

The Qake is a lie...?

[Tsuga]

this is what i wrote in another thread, this is why i think mages are the like this for 1.20 onwards copy/paste

i always thought CON would make the better blackmage, if for no other reason than the lore, but it comes as no surprise that CON got white. since 1.18 it has been quite easy to see with all cures going to CON. this does not mean that CON the class is not elementalist it still has its lore steeped in Grid, job is whitemage class is CON 2 different things

for awhile now THM has been the second choice healer when creating a party, this is not going to change after 1.20, THM has been getting ready for its direction as magic DD, which is what it will be after 1.20. ok so the argument is CON can use magic DD spells as well tho. but we don't know the traits of each class, i can quite easy see THM having insane magic attack potency, i wouldn't be surprised if CONs nukes are stronger with a THM, (i know this goes against what we were told about cross class abilities being less affective with other classes. but offensive spells work with magic damage potency)

i believe debuffs were taken away for 2 reasons 1) one they were broken, and nobody used them. 2) they are one school of magic and cry out for their own class, we need more mages and what better spells to give an arcanist. give the team some time to make a new mage with these DEbuffs. and with any luck they will work properly next time we see them.

now the bit of your post i bolded. who said this is not how it is going to work, in my opinion this is exactly how it will work. you put a job stone on you gain abilities but you lose some, we are told class can be for solo but job is only for party. if you add a job stone and gain 5 more abilities but don't lose any how would this stop you from playing solo? if anything it would make solo easyier

I couldn't help but notice your completely logical post.

Don't you know that the norm here is to bitch first, use logic later?

[grandm]

I couldn't help but notice your completely logical post.

Don't you know that the norm here is to bitch first, use logic later?

well i do normally have a good bitch first, but i thought i would do it in reverse, there is plenty there for others to have a bitch over :P

[Evovenom]

This is sad. You need enfeebing spells. The idea of not having them is beyond me. You'll need to slow down monsters attack speed and paralyze them, even slow down movement speed. Bio, poision and so on are needed. Anycase I haven't played 2.0 as no one else has. I'll have to wait and see what they have instore for me. Maybe it'll work, maybe.

[Bowen]

Well, said.
+ 1

[NoctisUmbra]

Best post on the forums right now.

+1.

[Seif]

Let's see my favorite things about FF games gameplay. The black mages (just saying Vivi usually wins every FF argument ever) and bio + slow spells. Well what do you know smart move SE removing these from XIV's future!

I have to say I'm really pessimistic about the upcoming jobs. Perhaps unjustly so because truthfully none of us have used them yet. What I am really worried for is that they'll only be usable in parties that seem to be not that important aspect of this game to begin with. After a short pt you have to turn the BLM mode off and get back tot he watered down nearly identical mage classes. I'll gladly eat my words if I'm wrong which I really hope I am.