[dev1206] Class Reforms: why the 15/11 limit?

[Elexia]

I see 3 obvious ones :

-Depending on your mp pool
-Depending on the enmity you want to generate
-Depending on the time you can allow yourself to be defenseless while casting

Tiers does make sense, yes, but people cried pools of blood to make XIV a boring repeat MMO that you no doubt played in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010, instead of trying to become a FF MMO.

[Firon]

Tiers does make sense, yes, but people cried pools of blood to make XIV a boring repeat MMO that you no doubt played in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010, instead of trying to become a FF MMO.

ah yes the tier argument, I wonder how many times you unequipped banish II and used I so you would take less hate

[Monsalvato]

ah yes the tier argument, I wonder how many times you unequipped banish II and used I so you would take less hate

Very rarely of course, I guess.
But that's because the game was "forcing" you to make a choice and was limiting the amount of actions you could keep equipped at the same time to 30.
So in that scenario you weren't equipping lower tier spells not because you couldn't find an use for that, but rather because you had limited space and had to make choices.

In a scenario where you DO NOT have to choose your main class' abilities because you get them all regardless, this wouldn't be an issue, would it?


But even then, as I tried to explain several times with my previous post, I don't mind the "scaling system", there are pros and cons but I can be fine with that. I'm more worried about losing the "horizontal variety" the different elements provided.
That was guaranteeing a certain kind of depth that was very FF-esque and it would be a shame to see it go, even if replaced with other kind of depth-involving game aspects.
After all it's a FF mmo we're talking about here, not a generic good MMO. Sometimes some people lose track of this I'm afraid.
Yoshi-P worked very hard to bring back the FF feeling in this game which I am not scared to say was definitely lacking in several fields when the game was released in september 2010.

It would really be a shame to see a step backwards after so many successful forward ones.

[Jinko]

That was guaranteeing a certain kind of depth that was very FF-esque and it would be a shame to see it go, even if replaced with other kind of depth-involving game aspects.
After all it's a FF mmo we're talking about here, not a generic good MMO. Sometimes some people lose track of this I'm afraid.
Yoshi-P worked very hard to bring back the FF feeling in this game which I am not scared to say was definitely lacking in several fields when the game was released in september 2010.

It would really be a shame to see a step backwards after so many successful forward ones.

Yoshi-p seems to be drawing inspiration from FFIII, crystal tower, lack of a Water spell etc.

Why is this not considered FF to you ?

There was only 22 white magic spells in FFIII by the way, some of which were enfeebling which will no doubt find a new home on a new class.

P.s There are no tiers of spells in FFIII either.

[Bahn]

ah yes the tier argument, I wonder how many times you unequipped banish II and used I so you would take less hate

Cure II vs Cure III is a prime example. Mages use Cure II for usual battles to keep the tank alive while keeping healing MP costs down as it won't generate as much enmity. Cure III is for when you think the tank (or your other party members) need a huge heal (they get hit by a WS or you want to top them off before they get hit by an attack) and you had to consider the consequences of using it vs II since III will generate a ton of enmity.

The same goes for the use of DoT vs elemental vs ancient magicks. You used the ancient magicks to do a ton of spike damage (at the risk of wasting a ton of MP, which may come to bite you in the butt if you're both the healer and the nuker in a lowman party) with the risk of generate crazy enmity, elemental magicks to do steady damage while generating manageable enmity, and DoTs to do damage at very little MP cost and risk.

So yes, the current system does offer a lot of depth - maybe a lot less for the melee classes (there is ZERO reason to use the tier 1 version of a skill vs a tier 2 version), but it was definitely useful for the mage classes. The issue that I have with it now that I do agree with is that there are too many useless skills/spells and a lot of overlap. I definitely think that needs to be addressed in 1.20.

Edit: I'm also surprised at the civil discussion in this thread. No name calling or sweeping generalizations. This is very constructive discussion.