Plot migration and why the housing problem persists, SE please start listening.

[HyoMinPark]

To those who don't see the issue with relocating, are not seeing it from the prospective of someone who doesn't own a house. I'll use myself as an example. . . .While I'm not force to buy a Small House, I'm also not gonna just buy any random house to just have it.

This is the biggest problem with your post: you want a house, but unless it’s the one you want, it’s not “good enough” for you, is what this sentence makes it sound like. You are not more entitled to a house (or a specific house) than anyone else, Relocators or First-Time Buyers or FCs. For all the complaints I see about this release of housing, they always revolve around “I’m not going to get the plot I wanted!” to “I’m being forced to make do with a small house when I don’t want a small! I want a large/medium! I should be able to have what I want!”

Instead of advocating for taking away plots from other people who want them just as much as the next person does, why aren’t people advocating for them to increase the number of mediums/larges? It won’t be a permanent solution, because there will always be a shortage (and there will always be people that are mad they didn’t get “the plot they wanted”), but it’s better than basically saying “I deserve it more than you do”.

I just take issue with how entitled that sounds. You (general you) do not deserve a plot any more than the next person does.



Let me share my story about housing, for anyone who wants to know—it gives some insight into why I feel the way I do/why I have my opinions:

I did not participate in the 3.3 Launch, because, well, I didn’t have enough money for a house at the time so why bother. But a friend of mine did. She was after Plot 11/41 in the Lavender Beds (i.e., The God-Tier Medium plot). She gets in relatively fast (Cactuar was still pretty mid-pop back then, not as large as it is nowadays), but sadly, all 8 of that specific plot were already gone. Her response? “I didn’t get THAT PLOT, and now I’m quitting the game!!!” We, her friends, managed to convince her to stay, and even tried to tell her there was a medium near the house of the FC that I was currently in (we presented this as a great time for us to all be neighbors, since she was in a different FC from us and didn’t want to leave it because she liked it). We had to spend several hours convincing her to at least take another medium plot (I want to place the emphasis on “medium” here—we weren’t even asking her to settle for a small, but another medium), even though it wasn’t the one she originally wanted.

Come Shirogane’s announcement at Fanfest. She decides to let her nice medium in the Beds auto-demolish, because she wanted to get a house (specifically a mansion) in Shirogane, and they had not yet announced the idea of relocation (as far as I recall they had not, anyways). We, her friends, tried to convince her to wait/think about it for a little bit (especially given the way she reacted after not getting Plot 11/41) because we knew there was a chance she may end up without a house at all, but she didn’t want to, so she let her plot auto-demolish for 80% of the cost.

Shirogane gets closer, and launches in a spectacular disaster. She managed to get in with no errors, but was 900+ in queue, and by then, all the mansions were gone (apparently there were still a few mediums left, but mostly smalls?—I can’t back this up by more than just my friend’s hearsay, because I had a faulty/unresponsive launcher, 2 lobby server errors, a 90k, and was 1,600+ in the queue). Her response again? “I didn’t get the house I wanted! I’m quitting the game!” We tried to convince her to buy another plot so that she could try to relocate in the future (since this would at least be something: she wouldn’t have the plot she wanted, but she would at least have a Shirogane house, which she really wanted to have a house there), but she refused. We spend more hours convincing her not to quit the game, especially after Yoshida announced they would be adding more Wards.

Finally comes this housing release. Sometime between the 3.3 and 4.1 housing releases, she had branched off from her old FC and started her own, so for 4.2 she was looking to get one for her FC (I think she had intended for the 4.1 house to be an FC one as well, but I’m not sure; she still really wanted a personal house at that time). However, she was unaware of the rules surrounding alt characters in FCs, and one of our friends had an alt in her FC back from when she was first getting it started, while his main was the master of another FC. She tried to buy a plot, and it wouldn’t let her (because of the restriction on alts). Meanwhile, myself and another friend had celebrated that we had managed to get some houses—I just posted a simple comment in our shared LS of “I got a mansion for my FC! ” and that was it. I didn’t know until a few seconds later that she had been unsuccessful in her attempts.

After I figured out what the problem was, I tried to tell her what she could do to remedy it (all she had to do was just kick the alt and she would have been golden). But, by then, all the Shirogane mansions were gone. I proceeded then to tell her “There are tons of mansions everywhere else; I know they aren’t Shiro, but try to get one and you can always relocate to Shirogane later on”. I suggested the Lavender Beds, because there was very little competition there at the time for mansions, and it’s still a very nice area that I knew she also liked. Well, she wasn’t hearing any of that. Some more back and forth between us, and she has subsequently blocked me on Discord and Facebook, and is no longer wanting to be friends with me. Because I “just didn’t understand”, was “rubbing it in her face” that I had managed to get a house, and I “knew how much she wanted a mansion in Shirogane” and that she “didn’t want to settle for anything else”. By the way, we had been friends since 2011–way before either of us were playing FFXIV.


This is where my issue lies: the way my friend acted was so terribly entitled, that I am finding a hard time having sympathy for her, especially after she turned on me for just simply saying ONCE in the LS that I managed to get a house. I feel similarly towards a lot of the comments I see here about the housing, too—

It really sucks when you don’t get the plot you want. I know that; I’ve been there. But I still think that at least owning a house gives you a leg-up/an advantage later on, especially with the new relocation feature added. It may not be ideal, but, for me personally, if the choice is between “not having a house” and “not having my dream house but still at least having one”, I would take the latter. I also think a better response is “We should advocate for increased numbers of larges/mediums” rather than “Take away the larges/mediums from the people that relocated because I want their plot”.

However, I realize not everyone is me, nor do I think they should all think how I do. That being said, I just wish people would at least consider alternatives.

[Zojha]

But the issue of "I wont settle for anything but my dream plot!" is something instanced housing cant fix either.

Actually, that is again something "only" instanced housing really is capable of fixing, because instances can be changed a lot easier in their layout than the rest of the world. Landscape editing is something you generally don't want to allow people in public space as it affects others, but in an instance, you can (theoretically) allow people to build a death mountain to put their house on top, or a placid beach, or a lush jungle or somewhere underwater. With the right tools, you can simply make it your dream plot from a blank canvas.

For this game in particular, the only thing I'd consider realistic in that regard would be themed presets you can switch between from a menu outside, as the devs like to keep things on rails (in many regards). They could make this a new gil sink, tho - Releasing new presets ever so often that can be bought with gil.

[Nezerius]

Browsing on Reddit, I saw someone actually make a suggestion I thought was pretty good:

—Make all plots upgradable to all sizes.

I think that would be a good solution. Have plots keep their current Grade ratings, and when someone goes to purchase one, they can have the option to purchase the plot as a small plot, a medium plot, or a large plot. And then pay the respective price based off of the Grade + Plot Type they want to purchase.

Wishful thinking, hoping the developers decide to implement a system like this, but I feel like it could be a compromise to the various complaints surrounding the limited number of mediums/larges versus the large number of smalls there are.

Unless upgrading only affects the interior, this really wouldn't work at all. It would require a ridiculous amount of resources to even attempt, for multiple reasons.

Map space: They would have to rework the map for each district, to make sure there'd be enough space for 30 large houses.
Garden/front yard: They're already careful about adding even a few more outdoor furnishing slots to each house size. If they were to allow players to upgrade to a large house, that'd increase the possible amount of outdoor furnishings from 730 to 1200. If plants in a garden plot also count as similar objects, that'd add another possible 344 objects.

And while each ward wouldn't always have 30 large houses, with the maximum amount of outdoor furnishing slots used (+ 90 fully planted garden plots), the server would still have to be prepared to be able to handle that.

[SigmaOZ]

^ Yeah because no one needs neighbors really!...

I would also like my dream house come true in this game, be it an entire ward or something made from scratch, it wouldn't matter as long as it was what I wanted, I would like an entire castle for myself for example but it may be too complex to do!...

Let's hope the Producer reads this and then see if they're willing to do it or not!...

[Reyn]

Map space: They would have to rework the map for each district, to make sure there'd be enough space for 30 large houses.
Garden/front yard: They're already careful about adding even a few more outdoor furnishing slots to each house size. If they were to allow players to upgrade to a large house, that'd increase the possible amount of outdoor furnishings from 730 to 1200. If plants in a garden plot also count as similar objects, that'd add another possible 344 objects.

I'm with Hyomin that the true problem is not having enough mediums/larges, but these are good points to consider. What if wards simply had half the number of houses? Would that be a viable compromise if a majority of them were medium/large?

They'll never modify current wards in such a way, but it may be something to think about when designing new neighborhoods in the future.

[Settiesama]

It really sucks when you don’t get the plot you want. I know that; I’ve been there. But I still think that at least owning a house gives you a leg-up/an advantage later on, especially with the new relocation feature added. It may not be ideal, but, for me personally, if the choice is between “not having a house” and “not having my dream house but still at least having one”, I would take the latter. I also think a better response is “We should advocate for increased numbers of larges/mediums” rather than “Take away the larges/mediums from the people that relocated because I want their plot”.

This, just so much this. I got a small in Shirogane in 4.1 because I wasn't able to attain a medium and didn't care for a large (far too large for just me and the wife, while medium was the right size for what we wanted to do with it). That small, we worked on it, we made it beautiful and we adored it, but we just couldn't do everything that we dreamed of. I knew I was gonna try and relocate right after buying it, because Medium was a dream and it would open up the nice little plot we had for someone else to enjoy. If we failed on another Medium, then at least we had this small which we still enjoyed.

Come 4.2, I managed to relocate to the dream medium plot after spamming the world button and cancel like crazy when maint was ending. Now my dream is a reality and I couldn't be happier, and someone else can enjoy the little plot we had before, even if it isn't their dream, just like us, and can use it to make the attempts on their dream, again just like we did.

In my honest opinion, if people choose the former on that choice, they really don't deserve a house.

[HyoMinPark]

Unless upgrading only affects the interior, this really wouldn't work at all. It would require a ridiculous amount of resources to even attempt, for multiple reasons.

Map space: They would have to rework the map for each district, to make sure there'd be enough space for 30 large houses.
Garden/front yard: They're already careful about adding even a few more outdoor furnishing slots to each house size. If they were to allow players to upgrade to a large house, that'd increase the possible amount of outdoor furnishings from 730 to 1200. If plants in a garden plot also count as similar objects, that'd add another possible 344 objects.

And while each ward wouldn't always have 30 large houses, with the maximum amount of outdoor furnishing slots used (+ 90 fully planted garden plots), the server would still have to be prepared to be able to handle that.

I never said it would be an easy fix; I even said it’s wishful thinking to think they would implement a system like this because everyone knows how stubborn they are to leave things as is. But considering people are complaining so frequently about how there aren’t enough Larges/Mediums and an overabundance of Smalls, it’s something to consider that the number of large/medium plots should perhaps be upped in any future housing releases. As for the idea itself, I thought it was a nifty one, and I’d never seen it suggested before; just thought I would share it.

I already know the devs aren’t going to revamp the system as a whole. But they need to consider some of this feedback, which is pointing towards the lack of large/medium plots. Which are highly desirable, at least on NA/EU (I’ve heard JP doesn’t like large plots as much).

This, just so much this. I got a small in Shirogane in 4.1 because I wasn't able to attain a medium and didn't care for a large (far too large for just me and the wife, while medium was the right size for what we wanted to do with it). That small, we worked on it, we made it beautiful and we adored it, but we just couldn't do everything that we dreamed of. I knew I was gonna try and relocate right after buying it, because Medium was a dream and it would open up the nice little plot we had for someone else to enjoy. If we failed on another Medium, then at least we had this small which we still enjoyed.

Come 4.2, I managed to relocate to the dream medium plot after spamming the world button and cancel like crazy when maint was ending. Now my dream is a reality and I couldn't be happier, and someone else can enjoy the little plot we had before, even if it isn't their dream, just like us, and can use it to make the attempts on their dream, again just like we did.

In my honest opinion, if people choose the former on that choice, they really don't deserve a house.

I’m in a similar boat to you. I obtained a small house some time during the last months of Heavensward. Just happened to be browsing the Lavender Beds and see the plot open. I rushed and immediately purchased it, and I was in love with that small. Was it a mansion? No. Was it the Plot 11/41 god-tier medium? No. But I had a house, and I was happy. Come Shirogane, I was screwed over by a faulty launched and lobby errors, so I was unable to relocate to plot 16/46 (which was the mansion I wanted in Shirogane), but after my anger subsided—which was directed more at the launcher and server stability, not at the fact that I didn’t get a house because I was prepared going in to walk away with nothing—I still had a house, and at least there was that. Come 4.2, I managed to not only get a large in the Beds for my FC, but relocate my small to Plot 41 in the Lavender Beds. I played The Housing Game, and managed to eventually get what I wanted. I think that others should at least consider playing The Game, too. Because it only increases their odds of at least getting IN the housing system, and obtaining the plot they want at a later date. It worked in my favor; it worked in several other people’s favor. And while it’s not a perfect system (Housing in general isn’t a perfect system), I took having that small over not having a house at all. (I actually feel really nostalgic about my small; little sad that no one has bought it up yet since I vacated it, and it’s sad to think that people think they’re above Small plots in a market where you’re lucky to even have a house to begin with...)

[Vidu]

Actually, that is again something "only" instanced housing really is capable of fixing,

...you missed my point a bit - while yes, thats true and changing the "background" to suit your favoured view could (only) be fixed by instanced housing, my point was rather: People still wont be happy.
Yesterday I replied to a thread where someone spoke out against instanced housing because it would lose the neighboury-feel (that a lot of us dont seem to have in the first place though) and would be bad for RP...
So yeah, my point was rather: People will always find something to complain.
Maybe I'm just a bit burnt out on seeing all these threads spread out of the ground like mushrooms, repeating themself over and over again just because someone else now discovered that the housing system is less than optimal but didnt discover the 50 threads we already had on this issue.
Me being fed of and getting a bit snarky and cynic with this by now is obviously a personal problem and I'll probably refrain from further discussions like this - this isnt targetted against you, Zojha, this is just someone who had it with people acting all entitled but arent willing to put any effort in.
Housing was/is supposed to be a bit exclusive, prestige content - specially large and medium houses (I still wish, prices would reflect that again). And I bet that half of the people who are complaining now about not getting a large house will complain how its not special anymore once everyone can have one...

...sorry, personal rant over. I'll get back to decorating my mansion in the goblet that I got by relocating a smalle lavender bed plot. You may burn me for owning a mansion now. But since its not in Shirogane but in the less desirable goblet (for you btw, not for me - I got my dream plot, its just a dream that not many people share) you probably wont.

Browsing on Reddit, I saw someone actually make a suggestion I thought was pretty good:

—Make all plots upgradable to all sizes.

I think this could work well/better with instanced houses aswell!
You'd buy a basic house with something thats more or less only the entrance hall of a mansion - and then you can pay additional gil to add the cellar, the first floor, maybe a balcony (one can dream), a second floor, a little tower (you know the type they throw pricesses in to prevent them from marrying)... same with the garden: Pay extra to add a chocobo-stable at a fixed location (so you wouldnt have to add it as an item to the yard), hot springs, a little pond...

[FallenArisen0990]

Text.

This isn't about what house I want. I don't have an ideal house. While I'm happy SE finally limit players to one for one, they also added this whole restriction on who can buy what for this Patch. I didn't ask for this additional restriction they put on it. I'm willing to let FCs go because they honestly benefit more from it than to individual players. Me wanting a specific plot? That was long crushed when this Patch went live. I felt that if this Patch of Housing was more geared to FCs who don't have a House or wanted a bigger House, should've only benefited FCs. I've already waited this long for a House and can without a doubt continue to wait cuz once the next expansion hits, we'll be right back to this same discussion. Say SE continues this model in future patches. Is it fair to those that waited this long, to be sat in a corner and watch current Home Owners come in and snatch up possible new plots in the next expansion all because "it's fair" to those who have to pay more?

If you want more chances at mediums in the game, advocate instead for upping the number of medium plots, rather than advocate for taking plots away from people.

Honestly, what you say about the ability to upgrade plots into larger houses, I'm in full support of that idea. I'm not advocating to take away plots from people. Why would I want that? I just don't want a fine line between Individuals with Homes and Individuals without Homes.

[HyoMinPark]

Is it fair to those that waited this long, to be sat in a corner and watch current Home Owners come in a snatch up possible new plots in the next expansion all because "it's fair" to those who have to pay more?

You still have a chance to get in on the Housing market—even if you have to “settle for a small”, you will still have a house, and be able to take advantage of the Relocation feature in the future, because I doubt that it’s going to go away any time soon. You’re just choosing not to, and I personally don’t understand why, except out of this idea that you don’t want to settle for having a small house when you want a medium, which you stated in an earlier post:

I'll use myself as an example:

I want to buy a Medium House. . . .I'm not saying everyone is looking to buy a bigger house but it now takes away more options from me when others upgrade their house or shuffle around houses because everyone who owns a house, is free to do it with no restriction. The house I want to get, may no longer be an option because the plots I had an eye for, are taken now, leaving a lot more small plots open or for me to now look into other areas that might still have larger houses available. This isn't fair to individuals who were looking to buy a bigger house. We still gotta compete with other individuals who are also looking to buy a bigger house, with now less options. . . .then to those who don't have a house, are left with leftovers and it may not be exactly what you want. While I'm not force to buy a Small House, I'm also not gonna just buy any random house to just have it.

But again, if you want more chances at mediums in the game, advocate instead for upping the number of medium plots, rather than advocate for taking plots away from people. You are not more entitled to house than the next person. Say you wanted Plot 11 in the Lavender Beds, or Plot 30 in Shirogane. Well, I’m sorry, but you’re not entitled to take it from whoever owns it, just like they wouldn’t be entitled to take it from you if the roles were reversed.


I also want to point out that not everyone is going to relocate either if/when more housing is added in the future. Sure, there were people upgrading with Shirogane and 4.2’s Housing release, but the vast majority stayed right where they were originally (at least on my server—several plots in the old wards may have opened up, but it was not the majority of them). I know when the next wave of housing comes along, I won’t be relocating my personal. I wouldn’t trade Lavender Beds, Plot 41 for anything.