This whole Meta Party thing is hurting me. x_x

[zuzu-bq]

1. Less skilled players shouldn't be doing the hardest content.

Uh yes they should, content is there for everyone to try out, having them clear or not. And poor job balancement pressures them to not play some jobs that are bad in less skilled enviorments. BLM is one of them.

A6: We believe everyone is focusing on their main job; however, we’re making sure the experience when playing the jobs are different. At the very least, we have no plans to add any new support abilities in the 4.x series. Also, there seems to be a trend where players believe they are at a disadvantage when they bring certain jobs to raids, but there won’t be any major disadvantage or advantage no matter what setup you have.

They're technically not wrong. But the percieved advantage is big. Game is actually way more balanced than people feel like it.

[HaroldSaxon]

All you have done countless times is simply state blm needs a buff, and other jobs need to lose theirs. You say you want blm to remain as it is, a selfish dps, we point out they are indeed the top dps currently and you just say no. You state that taking a "meta" comp is the only way for less skilled players to complete the hardest content.

Ok
1. Less skilled players shouldn't be doing the hardest content.
2. If players want to play by self imposed rules to shorten the fights length, thats the players problem
3. Currently every job in the game can complete the hardest content if the players on the jobs are skilled enough
4. If players do enjoy going for speed kills ect, then they have chosen to do so and if 1 comp is better then the others due to their self imposed rules, again, thats their problem.
5. The only time when the time it takes to kill a boss matters is in world first races, again self imposed rules. Be that as it may, for everyone below #1, meta doesn't really matter.

It seems you are having problems reading my posts. I have said that Black Mages personal dps is not enough to counteract the lack of utility. Black Mages total contribution to raid dps is not top.

Please re-read your posts next time. Thank you.

And btw the devs opinion on meta in today's LL :

A6: We believe everyone is focusing on their main job; however, we’re making sure the experience when playing the jobs are different. At the very least, we have no plans to add any new support abilities in the 4.x series. Also, there seems to be a trend where players believe they are at a disadvantage when they bring certain jobs to raids, but there won’t be any major disadvantage or advantage no matter what setup you have.

understand : stop annoying us with meta, we won't be working on it cause it's your problem (players choice)

The dev's are correct that they shouldn't add any new support abilities, but they are absolutely incorrect by saying the part I have bolded. They don't have a clue what they are talking about.

[Remedi]

I think that in their eyes the fact that you can basically change to any job you want plus the fact that gear is extremely easy to come by AND the fact that each new tier is a de facto gear reset means that their priority is making all jobs able to clear the content and balancing them all is a much lesser topics for them.

I'll keep myself in the middle on this because imho it's understandable but also a bit aggravating

[HaroldSaxon]

I think that in their eyes the fact that you can basically change to any job you want plus the fact that gear is extremely easy to come by AND the fact that each new tier is a de facto gear reset means that their priority is making all jobs able to clear the content and balancing them all is a much lesser topics for them.

I'll keep myself in the middle on this because imho it's understandable but also a bit aggravating

Which would be fair enough if each class had its fair share of times when they are strong and weak, and if every role was represented. But that isn't the case and hasn't been for the DPS roles for a long time. How dare anyone consider BRD/DRG/NIN/MCH nerfs without corresponding fixes that increase their DPS

[Remedi]

You are absolutely right on that point hence why I say that while a bit understandable it's a bit aggravating given the circumstances, though I'd prefer them creating a caster efficency over destroying the ranged /melee one

[Karshan]

I think what most people also forget is that they're working as any project team, in the real world, on a job market : faced with recommandations, they analyse the benefit/risk ratio.

Risk : hours and hours of debate and testing, and still being at the mercy of rant. Benefit : pleasing the less than 1% players who have a use for meta and care about it.

I can bloody tell you right away team leader's decision : let them rant in threads we don't even read. Most are still subbed and even if not, meh 2k less players

[HaroldSaxon]

I think what most people also forget is that they're working as any project team, in the real world, on a job market : faced with recommandations, they analyse the benefit/risk ratio.

Risk : hours and hours of debate and testing, and still being at the mercy of rant. Benefit : pleasing the less than 1% players who have a use for meta and care about it.

I can bloody tell you right away team leader's decision : let them rant in threads we don't even read. Most are still subbed and even if not, meh 2k less players

I work in the industry. I have also previously led a game balance team for another game. They are completely out of touch. The issue stems from no-one at the company playing the game to a decent level - even the dev's and playtesters play the game with godmode enabled for development purposes. Look at what happens when Yoshi-P "shows off" his BLM gameplay - he rarely uses an optimal rotation at all. I'm not saying it is easy. I'm not saying it can be done overnight. But the comments that come out from Yoshi-P are flat out insulting for a portion of the playerbase. Just because the issue isn't visible to other users, doesn't mean the issue isn't high impact.

You don't even have to have too much risk in the game when even community members have made applications to take into account raid dps buffs.

And if you think class performance is for less than 1% of the currently subscribed playerbase, you have been reading reddit too much.

[Remedi]

No offense but I'd prefer to have some source on them using godmode on every testing, I'd rather not have another meme running around like they catering to the JP playerbase when according to the japanese playerbase it's the opposite

[HaroldSaxon]

No offense but I'd prefer to have some source on them using godmode on every testing, I'd rather not have another meme running around like they catering to the JP playerbase when according to the japanese playerbase it's the opposite

IIRC Its been said a number of times in Liveletters and interviews. Here is a video of it in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07jeXOiHPmw

They then do the DPS calculations for fights based on their own internal calculations (again, said by him) but its often speculated by the community that they don't take into account high tank and healer DPS into account, as well as stacked raid buffs. There also seems to be some sort of disconnect on what they calculate is theoretically possible on some classes if Stone Sea Sky is any indicator - BLM's dummy being above SAM is one example last raid tier - especially given what we know about cast times and ping/hardware.

[Kabooa]

Meta is a arbitrary set of rules, they don't actually exist except in peoples minds. They think if its not meta it won't work, or it isn't good enough and thats a bunch of bull. Even the devs have said to themselves but of course, you say they are wrong because, why would they know ANYTHING about the game they make.

Meta is the culmination of data and execution. It is the most effective party composition not because people say it is, but because it is mathematically proven.

Play whatever you want. Get good at it. Find a team that's willing to sacrifice something and cater to your preference. No one's arguing that.

But the stark difference shouldn't be so cut and dry. Between equally skilled Blam / Sams and a Machinist, the machinist wins out every time and that's the problem.