This whole Meta Party thing is hurting me. x_x

[HaroldSaxon]

Look up the statistics on FF Logs. There is no 'vast difference.' From top to bottom, the difference isn't glaring.

Wrong

So the skip X phase or disband isn't cancerous? People care about speed running, and that's the problem. You don't save that much time in any given comp. It just creates problems.

I wouldn't call it that word, but I don't think its wrong to set your own requirements for parties.

Actually, you are wrong. Classes are designed and balanced with end game fights in mind (other aspects of the game just works). If a class is performing poorly (or too highly) in top end of content, that's when change occurs.

Again, wrong. The optimal comp hasn't changed for multiple patches now.

If every class is viable for end game content, in a PvE context, it's properly balanced. Full stop.

Wrong

What professional athlete can you think of that cares about MVPs, scoring titles, over team championships? Very, very few. Championships are what goes into the record books, not who had the best stat line in the championship game.

If you think professional athlete's don't care about being the best they can be, both individually and as a team, you clearly don't have a clue about professional athletes. And that mentality only serves my point further.

Once again you are misunderstanding me. Personal attainment or self improvement is fine. Excluding others because they don't fit into some mythical 'meta' — despite the fact that they can complete the content — that's the problem.

So what, you are forced to play with people who have different mindsets and goals to you?

Casters being 'bad' is a community created concept that has no merit to it whatsoever. The best DPSer in the game is a caster. Too many people in the community have created this myth that casters are bad and these others are better. It's false. Everyone is capable of clearing the content.

Wrong again.

As I quoted earlier, the primary role of a DPS is doing damage. By definition, the DPSer who does the most damage is the top performing DPSer. Full stop. There is no arguing this.

Wrong again. Raid DPS > Personal DPS

[HaroldSaxon]

Maybe I misread what you wanted here, but in any case, this is where I began having issues. You specifically ask for something to be outright removed, not other jobs to be given something as beneficial.

In the short term, there is no way SE are going to be able to create competing buffs on multiple different classes for every role. Therefore until the next expansion, the short term fix is to remove it.

I point out that blm is the highest, single dps in the game currently, after you go on and on for 8 pages about them needing a buff, then say no, those aren't good stats. Granted its early but really?

Raid DPS is the metric you rate performance on, not personal DPS. Furthermore, as i've said before, Week 2 statistics is not an ideal thing to go on - especially given the changes that are coming next week with Physical Weapon Damage.

The game devs didn't make the meta, the players did. Why? To shave minimal time off a kill? Seriously? And you want SE to rotate around with this, so that everyone has a chance to look at other jobs and be like, nah I'll pass.

The game dev's made the meta by overbuffing Bard and Machinist, that were support jobs, in Heavansward to the point where they outdpsed casters. They continued this meta by refusing to give non utility DPS enough damage to outweigh it, and give one class an absolutely broken kit (Ninja) and three classes near unbeatable synergy (Bard/Machinist/Dragoon).

Until disembowel and ninja are dealt with, its going to take another absolutely broken class to be able to compete with it. From a personal standpoint, I don't think going on a rotation of buffing everything and refusing to nerf broken things is the best way to balance things due to power creep.

Since when did killing the boss not be enough?

Some people enjoy pushing things to the absolute limit. Some don't. Adjusting the balance of classes isn't going to remove your goal of "just killing the boss". Adjusting the balance of classes will mean that the caster role actually gets a chance to be used in Speedruns so they can have that goal.

[Veliena]

[QUOTE=HaroldSaxon;4572791Snip[/QUOTE]

You have done nothing in this entire thread but say wrong, wrong wrong, without anything to back it up. You say some people enjoy x but then demand x is killed. You say meta is all that matters when it really doesn't. You say raid dps is better then personal dps, yet give no solutions to the current issues of not having enough jobs be "viable" and instead simply sit here and complain about everything. Either propose actual solutions or plz, stfu.

[HaroldSaxon]

You have done nothing in this entire thread but say wrong, wrong wrong, without anything to back it up. You say some people enjoy x but then demand x is killed. You say meta is all that matters when it really doesn't. You say raid dps is better then personal dps, yet give no solutions to the current issues of not having enough jobs be "viable" and instead simply sit here and complain about everything. Either propose actual solutions or plz, stfu.

I've backed things up constantly. I'm not going to copy paste my old posts in this thread because someone doesn't want to read the context. I've given plenty of solutions. Maybe you should... Read the thread?

[Veliena]

I've backed things up constantly. I'm not going to copy paste my old posts in this thread because someone doesn't want to read the context. I've given plenty of solutions. Maybe you should... Read the thread?

All you have done countless times is simply state blm needs a buff, and other jobs need to lose theirs. You say you want blm to remain as it is, a selfish dps, we point out they are indeed the top dps currently and you just say no. You state that taking a "meta" comp is the only way for less skilled players to complete the hardest content.

Ok
1. Less skilled players shouldn't be doing the hardest content.
2. If players want to play by self imposed rules to shorten the fights length, thats the players problem
3. Currently every job in the game can complete the hardest content if the players on the jobs are skilled enough
4. If players do enjoy going for speed kills ect, then they have chosen to do so and if 1 comp is better then the others due to their self imposed rules, again, thats their problem.
5. The only time when the time it takes to kill a boss matters is in world first races, again self imposed rules. Be that as it may, for everyone below #1, meta doesn't really matter.

[Karshan]

And btw the devs opinion on meta in today's LL :

A6: We believe everyone is focusing on their main job; however, we’re making sure the experience when playing the jobs are different. At the very least, we have no plans to add any new support abilities in the 4.x series. Also, there seems to be a trend where players believe they are at a disadvantage when they bring certain jobs to raids, but there won’t be any major disadvantage or advantage no matter what setup you have.

understand : stop annoying us with meta, we won't be working on it cause it's your problem (players choice)

[Remedi]

Depends much on what you are aiming towards to, if your plan is clearing the content at your pace while also getting fun out of it ye that argument is valid, HOWEVER if you plan to be competitive then that argument is no longer valid because sopme jobs have clearly some advantages over others and what ppl want is not that all jobs to be meta but at least beign a choice and atm BLM is not much of a choice in the group because it doesn't fill the gap of rdps and it doesn't synergizes with other the other jobs in the game.

[Veliena]

And btw the devs opinion on meta in today's LL :

A6: We believe everyone is focusing on their main job; however, we’re making sure the experience when playing the jobs are different. At the very least, we have no plans to add any new support abilities in the 4.x series. Also, there seems to be a trend where players believe they are at a disadvantage when they bring certain jobs to raids, but there won’t be any major disadvantage or advantage no matter what setup you have.

understand : stop annoying us with meta, we won't be working on it cause it's your problem (players choice)

I love this post.

[Terkhev]

The funniest thing about meta is that, it works better the better your party is. For casual play, where you don't align party buffs perfectly and not everyone is doing optimal DPS to use them fully, utility oriented classes lose their raid DPS. Pure DPS jobs don't rely on others dealing damage for you, which lowers the rDPS gap.
But that doesn't change the fact, that if you want to aim higher than weekly savage farm, choosing wrong class will hurt you.

[Jukebox12]

any job can clear content we know that but meta is define from speed kills, Rdps as a whole. if Black mage and Samurai bring enough personal dps to make up for that Rdps that you lose from switching to these jobs it will be fine but as currently they do not