Ninja and the Mudra System. Suggestion to Make Ninja Smoother and Better For everyone

[KageTokage]

There are only two things I dislike abut NIN, which are my mudra inputs randomly getting eaten by latency and the animation delay on Trick Attack + latency making it so there's no guarantee you'll actually connect that back hit even if you hit the hotkey while something's back is turned, particularly when fighting stir-crazy hunts like Erle or Luminare and/or having a tank who can't seem to hold still.

[Etherblock]

I wasn't meaning to suggest it's hard for you and I apologise if I sounded like that. My word choise 'difficult' was I context, "if you find the mudra system to not be to the liking, then maybe consider playing another class" . My point was, many people who like ninja like it specifically because the system is as it is, complexity included.

The system is cool , not gonna lie, but the execution is clunky in my opinion. But i don't know how they can make it feel better.

[Etherblock]

There are only two things I dislike abut NIN, which are my mudra inputs randomly getting eaten by latency and the animation delay on Trick Attack + latency making it so there's no guarantee you'll actually connect that back hit even if you hit the hotkey while something's back is turned, particularly when fighting stir-crazy hunts like Erle or Luminare and/or having a tank who can't seem to hold still.

I agree with both of your points, and that is the reason i made this thread. but i suppose people are right when they say it seems like i'm suggesting the class to be dump down. That was not my intention of course. but yeah, very clunky at most times when using Mudras and Trick attack

[Sida]

The system is cool , not gonna lie, but the execution is clunky in my opinion. But i don't know how they can make it feel better.

Much of your "make it better" seems to revolve around "remove the things people might use by mistake" and that is a slippery slope of these ever was one. You cannot excell at something if you can't make mistakes, and choosing which mudra to use is it's own game, part of the class. true, you might sometimes and up with wrong skill "woops, wanted Doton" or even the dreaded bunny hat, but that is the challenge of it, to not make those mistakes.

[Dzian]

There are only two things I dislike abut NIN, which are my mudra inputs randomly getting eaten by latency and the animation delay on Trick Attack + latency making it so there's no guarantee you'll actually connect that back hit even if you hit the hotkey while something's back is turned, particularly when fighting stir-crazy hunts like Erle or Luminare and/or having a tank who can't seem to hold still.

mudra lag is the worst thing. dunno why it got worse in 4.0 but it's basically impossible to even toss a fuma shurikan without clipping gcds. pings only 140-155 which isn't much more than it was in heavensward but I find the job completely unplayable at the minute Ten chi jin is even more of a nightmare.

definitely needs improvement.

Much of your "make it better" seems to revolve around "remove the things people might use by mistake" and that is a slippery slope of these ever was one. You cannot excell at something if you can't make mistakes, and choosing which mudra to use is it's own game, part of the class. true, you might sometimes and up with wrong skill "woops, wanted Doton" or even the dreaded bunny hat, but that is the challenge of it, to not make those mistakes.

While I agree with the principal of this. latency is a massive factor in whether the right mudra goes out or not. player mistakes are a factor sure but the amount of times you might press ten chi jin ninjutsu. and end up throwing a hyoten out because the system didn't register either the ten or the chi. you pressed the right buttons so didn't make any mistakes but latency screws you up.
Or you press ten chi jin and still see the ration icon so you press jin again and end up with the bunny jutsu..again latency is the problem not player mistakes. a player sees ration the correct thing to do is press jin for suiton.. and only then does the system realise you've pressed it twice.

[Kazrah]

mudra lag is the worst thing. dunno why it got worse in 4.0 but it's basically impossible to even toss a fuma shurikan without clipping gcds. pings only 140-155 which isn't much more than it was in heavensward but I find the job completely unplayable at the minute Ten chi jin is even more of a nightmare.

definitely needs improvement.

Funniest thing is still seeing two separate Ninjutsu animations go off at the same time, like casting a Raiton only to see a Fuma Shuriken fly and then the Raiton goes off and deals damage.

Oh, just figured out another solution: disable the casting of the same Mudra more than once. Sure, we'd have to sacrifice the fail bunny, but it'd be worth it.

[Sida]

Oh, just figured out another solution: disable the casting of the same Mudra more than once. Sure, we'd have to sacrifice the fail bunny, but it'd be worth it.

That is a change I wouldn't mind seeing. It wouldn't drastically alter the system in itself

[Zojha]

Funniest thing is still seeing two separate Ninjutsu animations go off at the same time, like casting a Raiton only to see a Fuma Shuriken fly and then the Raiton goes off and deals damage.

That's part of their mudra fix from earlier. Before that, you'd see the Fuma fly and then get an error message you can't do that and stand around stupid <.<' I can still get that error message when doing Huton, because the Raiton will try to attack the enemy, but Huton can't be used on an enemy at all.
This is why I have started using Raiton - If I am using Fuma, this failsafe doesn't seem to trigger and my ninjutsu often won't go off at all, while I am naturally thinking it did and continue with my rotation and get a bunny as a result. It's probably because ninjutsu without a mudra doesn't do anything and thus cannot be put in the skill queue.

Personally, at 230MS, I haven't had much trouble with Mudra simply not registering. Longer mudra sequences are smooth as butter, the actual ninjutsu and sometimes the first Mudra are just slow. The prior is probably normal, the latter is hard to explain. I sometimes can get it off pretty much instantly in spite of the large latency, sometimes it has a very significant delay. I attribute it to the skill queue system as well - I noticed that on casters, queuing OGCDs is a thing like regular GCDs and it makes a world of difference in the time it takes for the skill to activate. Chances are, this same thing is what causes mudras to be so erratic, as even on an EU world with 20 MS, I can get a significant variance in activation time.

[Reynhart]

Personally, I would keep the Mudra system as it is now, mainly because it allows for more skills without adding any button.

For example, they could decide that the order of the mudra itself determine what jutsu will be used, instead of only the last one, and create a bunch of nw skills, or create 4-mudra-sequences for new prepull jutsus, etc...

[RenOkamiya]

If your issue is latency, I'd rather see something like making mudra input not breaking in-between GCD, meaning that you cast futon normally or add some "futon stance" like monk's fists (or just make it a passive skill and simply remove armor crush), and make the mudras themselves giving you a "proc buff" with unlimited time, and having the choice of weaving them between GCD's or execute them like we do now (for jumping boss mecanics or long range attacks for example).
It would make Raiton usefull again since it wouldn't clip the GCD anymore, Suiton is usually use at the 5-6 GCD anyway so not an issue their either, no need to Futon when you rez... and so on. It wouldn't change the Ten Chi Jin mecanics either, since it block your GCDs anyway.

It "follows" somehow your idea, but let Ninja keeping their own identity, and not making oGCD boring or similar to other classes.