Warrior is OP

[Aana]

I see this argument a lot and I wonder: If Thrill still affects damage, and the CD for Thrill is 2 minutes, is it not wise to wait for Thrill and therefore align with party buffs as well?

Generally, no you don't ever want to wait for raid buffs.

Example: Waiting a whole 30 seconds from 90-120. Over a 6 min:
Using on CD you get 4 uses of IR at 1.5, 3, 4.5, 6 min. 4x IR. 2x align with 120sec buffs.
Using on 120 sec you get 3 uses. 2, 4, 6 min. 3x IR. 3x align with 120 sec buffs.

(were ignoring the opener at 0 because everyone always gets that no matter what).

If you notice, you trade off TWO unbuffed IRs to get ONE with a little boost of 10% (or whatever % buff you are aligning with). 200% iR (2 uses) vs 1 use at 100%+X% where X is the buff. That's a terrible trade.

The simpler way to think about 'should I hold a skill for a buff' is as a % of the timer. Think of it this way. 9 seconds is 10% of the CD on IR. Every 9 sec you wait you are delay the NEXT IR by 10%. Lowering the effectiveness of the skill by 10%. Delaying it by 30 sec means you lost 33% of the CD so you lost 33% of an entire IR. Is that buff from waiting bigger than 33%? If the answer is yes, then wait. If no, then don't.

Practical example:
Eye buff (10% damage) just fell off. Upheaval is up. Do you wait 7.5 sec to do an Eye combo then upheaval, or just upheaval right now? Upheaval is a 30sec CD. 7.5 sec is 25% of 30 sec so waiting 'wastes' 25% of an upheaval. But waiting also gives your upheaval 10% more damage. 25%>10% so go ahead and use it without Eye. Its a damage gain.

Twist:
Same deal, but you just used maim. Do you upheaval now or wait 2.5 sec for Eye buff? 2.5sec is only 8.3% of upheavals CD so you are giving up 8.3% of an upheaval to gain 10% damage. Wait the 1 gcd for the buff. Its a damage gain to wait.

You can apply that logic to every CD in the game. Time is a resource and sitting on CDs wastes that resource.

Every moment you sit on a CD is pushing the next use farther away. Imagine just not hitting the next piece of your GCD combo for 5 sec to wait for a raid buff. That's silly. You are delaying your GCDs for a 5-10% buff? No. Just use them on cooldown. Buffs are the exact same thing just longer than 2.5 sec, but the principle is the same.

[Caelum_Dragguell]

If you're under the impression that Warrior does more damage than a dps, you've clearly not been around dps playing their job right. YES Warrior's opening burst is insane and sustained DPS when not forced to switch stances is high, but if I were to set the ilv of a whole party to i350-i355 the warrior would optimally pull between 4k-4.2k dps while the dps should be pulling 5.5-6k dps in a 3-5 minute fight easily, 3.8-4kdps on war and 5k+ for dps in a 8+ minute fight.

All that said, Why SE changed warrior at all (not to mention nerfing paladin) instead of focusing on DRK is beyond my comprehension.

[Aana]

War's opening spike is cray. All last night I was #1 or #2 on during the opener section of every pull in my static (ie not trashy DF DPS players). But that drops REAL fast. Our burst is only 10 sec. Most other jobs are 20-30 second opener and maintain that high dps when War falls off hard after 10 sec. Then we piddle around for another 80 sec in sad land. Rinse and repeat. Sure in the 1st 15 sec war is rivaling dps, but that doesn't mean anything when all fights are ~10 minutes long and war settles right into standard tank level damage.

Tanks have ALWAYS been able to beat dps when the tank is good+geared and DPS is bad, undergeared, or both. In other groundbreaking news, a level 70 tank is stronger than a lv 50 dps. /Gasp! Ilvl and skill matters!!!

If skill/gear are anywhere near even the DPS shreds any tank for the duration of a fight. If you cant beat a tank, you are dramatically worse than the tank you lost to. The end.

[silentwindfr]

Leveling content doesn’t really seem balanced. I know red Mage and other classes felt super powerful in the leveling process even though at level 70 they ended lower.

it was sigmascape and for info my monk is 70 i336



i'm not the best of the best, but my dps stay constant between 3800-4200 depending of the fight.

[BluexBird]

Yes, I agree. Warrior DPS is just way too good. I shouldn't be landing second or even first highest DPS in the Sigmascape Normal raids. The fact that I'm doing more damage than half the DPS at the end of the raid is clearly due to the fact that Warrior is overpowered, and not because the DPS have no idea what they're doing.

[shao32]

im starting to belive WAR burst is pretty op too, meaby not overall dps but the burst is damm insane, the way is the only tank who can skip ghost phase on phantom train is gamebreaking, not only that, even if SE cap that mechanic to make us go inside no matter what WAR is still the only tank who can skip the ghost tb.

in resume any tank dps check or dps check in general WAR have a huge advantage compared to the other 2 on top of the superiority of the other fields.

[BluexBird]

Congratulations. You mentioned the only situation in the entire game EVER where burst DPS actually counts for something. You want a cookie?

It doesn't matter how high their burst DPS is, because no fight lasts less than 5 minutes, meaning they eventually fall off and their DPS becomes similar to the other tanks.

Trying to skip ghost in O5S is somewhat stretching things. It is by no means necessary, and the advantage you gain by doing that is marginal. This isn't like tank LBing Byakko. In fact, it's almost borderline lazy. "Oh, but the DPS gain..." You mean the DPS you gain from wasting the Warrior's biggest and ONLY high damage window on something that won't even affect that boss' HP? Yay, you skipped ghosts! Warrior also lost the potential to do over 100k damage to the boss. Not to mention the risk of your loafing screen taking longer than usual, causing a wipe. But yeah, by all means, keep on skipping ghosts.

[shao32]

snip.

i dint remember being rude, but ok.

i say they burst is pretty op not the overall dps, actual WAR is 300 dps over DRK but thats DRK problem.

as we all know the value of burst its higher that sustained dps so thats make WAR being the only tank with less chances to screew up due they burst is huge but extremly short so isnt affected by mechanics like others in a bizarre way.

so no, any mechanic with involve adds of somekind the burst dps have a huge value due this will mean dps waste less time on it and spend more time on bosses, apart other mechanics with dps checks on it with are almost every fight in this game.

ghost mechanic is just a example how SE dint predict this and end with WAR being the only job capable to skip a entire mechanic by the face.

[Chrono_Rising]

it was sigmascape and for info my monk is 70 i336



i'm not the best of the best, but my dps stay constant between 3800-4200 depending of the fight.

Ah your display says you are level 64. I’m guessing this is an alt? Regardless, people don’t have to learn how to play their class well, there is no reason a tank should out dps an equally geared dps other than skill level. Warrior has a high starting burst but that should quickly fall off.

[MagiusNecros]

i dint remember being rude, but ok.

He's coming off as rude because he believes you are attacking WAR and feels WAR's burst should go towards the bosses HP. Which honestly if you know the mechanics and pushing that phase gets a faster clear it's a win win in my book.