Revelations from Patch 4.2

[Theodric]

Well, I think my biggest concern right now is that Zenos will slay his father and ascend to the throne, robbing us of a character that has actual depth. I've said this many times before, but seeing the relationship between Varis and Regula play a larger part in the story would have been very welcome. Not only would it put a more 'human' face to Garlemald's leadership but it would also help make up for the mishandling of the friendships between some of the Archbishop's Knights.

I don't want to spoil anything about a different game, but Xenoblades Chronicles 2 was a pleasant surprise in regards to how it handled the sense of companionship between a number of antagonists. It certainly succeeded at making them much more sympathetic and I hope that FFXIV embraces such plot points moving forward as cackling psychopaths that cheer as their allies suffer just aren't nearly as engaging as far as I'm concerned.

[Lauront]

I mean, if you look at FFVII, it wasn't Cloud who became its most popular character, but Sephiroth. I see Zenos turning out much the same way for FFXIV.

With him being the Zenos Fan Club President/super fanboy, I don't think he has any bit of care for his fellow Domans at all; in his mind, "NOTICE ME ZENOS SENPAI!!" He wouldn't betray the homeland of his dear lord.

His loyalty to Zenos is probably precisely why he will betray Garlemald as we know it. Zenos is not interested in his homeland's well-being, as he openly states when Shinryu manifests.

[DreamAngel-Ren]

His loyalty to Zenos is probably precisely why he will betray Garlemald as we know it. Zenos is not interested in his homeland's well-being, as he openly states when Shinryu manifests.

You're right, his hardcore loyalty to Zenos could bring him to serious trouble (death). Knowing Asahi, he would probably think what he's doing isn't considered betrayal (while he's not aware of Zenos' motives), but sadly it may be (we gotta see what he does for us to truly determine that factor). I can't wait to see the look on his face when he learns of Zenos' true feelings; it's going to be delicious X]

[Ametrine]

That has me wondering if Zenos's irreconcilable awfulness is the true key to the internal reformation Garlemald requires.

We know good Garleans exist from multiple walks of life, and the Ivalice raids have handed us a set of proud and loyal Garleans that aren't racist, violent, monstrosities of humans. We also have been told certain regions conquered are living just the same or better than before they were thanks to their rulers.

It's just that Othard and Eorzea have gotten the ones on the other ends of the spectrum in how they chose to rule.

Zenos's sadistic war-mongering becoming so unfavored amoung the testy ruling class of Garlemald could be our key to getting in there and setting forth the internal revolution and reformation it needs to put a stop to the violence.

ESPECIALLY with it clear we can BEAT him and have better success at stopping "eikons."

Man. I feel like this is setting up for disappointment.

[Cilia]

Well, I took my time getting to all this one had to offer due to 12 hour shifts and... other things. So, here we go. Owing to the very political nature of the patch and my general dislike of politicking for politicking's sake, I'm going to be short about it.

MSQ

I made sure to remember that Asahi was the one who suggested Yotsuyu be married off to an abusive drunkard for money when dealing with him, but despite that he almost got me to trust him... until the perfectly timed attack from the Red Kojin gave away his real agenda even before he dropped his mask at the very end. Needless to say I wasn't surprised by his duplicity, though I was surprised at his "I'm Zenos' No. 1 fan and you killed him, you bastard!" shtick. First off, no I didn't, second off, did you know the first thing about his character?! Ugh... seriously, my response wouldn't have been the anger the Warrior of Light shows but an exasperated "Seriously?! Even dead that guy's a pain in my ass..."

Now we know he's setting a trap of some sort; all that can really be done is to spring it. I just can't figure out why he's so focused on getting Yotsuyu back; she probably despises him more than the average Doman, given he is responsible for no small amount of her suffering.

So Zenos is back! Clone, or possessed? I'm going with the former, since Varis was apparently watching our final showdown and Elidibus showed up right after. Perhaps it's a possessed clone, but Zenos seemed pretty content with the way he went out. Or perhaps something we don't know yet.

I'm very amused at how upset Garlemald's fans are at its portrayal during 4.2. Perhaps the Garlemald you believe in doesn't exist?

Four Lords

It seems pretty simple. We have to beat the "chaotic energy" in the Four Lords so they're at peace and can help us re-seal or perhaps defeat Koryu when he awakens.

Given the series' root in Eastern mythology and as homage to XI, I do not expect it to have far-reaching, world-wide revelations to the setting.

Omega Sigmascape

So Midgardsormr is kind of a spirit who answers Hydaelyn's call? I figured out the latter, but the former I couldn't have guessed given he does have a corporeal body. He continues to mock Omega as a soulless machine, which it is, and is exactly why it can't understand our ability to overcome projected performances based on data. I pointed this out back during Deltascape.

Nero continues to be endearing, though I was irked by his comment to Cid about how we were all just variables in an experiment of his. The choice we had in response to his utterance of Kefka's line is... a bit telling, though.

Disappointed but not surprised Kefka's God form is a Savage exclusive thing since I'm not a hardcore raider who'll get to see it. At least it's still a fun and engaging fight.

[Theodric]

I just want some key plot points to be acknowledged and addressed.

- Magitek is insanely useful and is Garlemald's most valuable export and specialisation at the moment. Even Cid, as great as his skill may be, should be unable to match the brilliance of all of Garlemald's engineers combined. One of the key moments in FFVII is that it is Shinra, not the protagonists, who open up the way to the final bosses lair. A consequence of all their experimentation with powerful weaponry. We've yet to see a moment like this in FFXIV.

- Pureblood Garleans have heightened spatial awareness. Not only does this mean they are excellent at engineering, they should be formidable marksmen too. Reducing their soldiers to Stormtrooper levels of accuracy and efficiency does the story a disservice.

- Garlemald came to be as a result of Pureblood Garleans being persecuted for a considerable amount of time. They didn't just decide to conquer much of Hydaelyn on a whim, they did so because they had been forced to live in a hostile wasteland and had been hardened as a result. This doesn't excuse everything they have done, but not being able to manipulate aether is a huge disadvantage to have. Much of their conquest is likely driven by a preemptive desire to never suffer such persecution again. An irony, by consequence, is that they have become that which they fear.

- It's pretty obvious that, much like Ishgard, we're going to see the worst that Garlemald has to offer before seeing the best. Yet it's been drawn out for far too long at this point. The lore book outright confirms that there's more to Garlemald, as do numerous side quests. We just need the MSQ's to stop lagging behind already.

- Everybody wants their respective cultures to be handled with nuance and dignity. I have little doubt that people would be crying foul if Japanese, Chinese or some other major culture happened to be portrayed in a cliche and offensive manner. As someone who has strong blood ties to key players in both the British and Roman Empires I am little different in regards to wanting to see my cultural ties reflected in a more flattering light. Garlemald is heavily influenced by both cultures - though with the greater bulk of influence residing in the Roman side of things. Perhaps this is something those bashing 'Garlean Fans' should bear in mind moving forward. It's fine to showcase the worst elements of a particular culture, yet doing so the point that it overshadows everything else is questionable.

[Annana]

i think that is the real zenos i think he died then came back because he has the echo even if it is artificial just like how the warriors of darkness couldn't die when we fought them.

That's not how the Echo works. The Warriors of Darkness were closer to Ascians than living people when you fought them - you'll recall that they had to renounce their own flesh to travel from the First reflection to the Source. That is why they could instantly revive. They were already dead.

[Alleo]

Most annoying thing about this is, they don't let us PAY for it, but they require you to do the work to cover the cost. Paying directly wouldn't have been easier? I expect the WoL is quite wealthy. And again we get treated as errand boy/girl, or the brainless muscle at disposal.

#toofewcharswithspoilertag

And on top of that

We would have gotten the task from Soroban even without that reason and yet if we get a price we will theoretically have to give it to the scion to pay it back...So Alphy makes the mistake (which can happen), wants to pay for it after he sees the price, Tataru disagrees and sends us into a dangerous and unknown zone so that we as the WoL can risk their life for a price that we would have gotten ourself but that we now have to give up to the scions..while we did offer to pay it too..I mean come on SE x)

And on top of that we dont even know if there is even a price that is worth so much..

Why are we having a lot of discussions about Zenos without using the spoiler things? I mean it would be nice to discuss the patch without it but is it already fine to do so? Since Zenos is still quite the spoiler about the MSQ..

Not saying much about the other points but: There is a big difference of telling stories from real cultures and wanting it to be as accurate as possible and them telling us about something like Garlemald. They are not existing in real life thus SE can do whatever they want with it. If they tell to us in x way then people have to accept that they are like that. (You can still not like it but that sadly doesnt change canon itself) They are not hurting anyone with that since it does not exist. And if this is how they see them then in the end this is their true culture and you can like or dislike it however you want but its still that way. And no I am not saying that they will go into a certain way..but just wanted to point out that its SE that writes their culture and even if they have stuff in common with real life ones they are still their own culture and can go down quite a different way if they want it. Right now they are not shown in a good light. Maybe that will change, maybe it will get worse.

Even in real life you had cultures that were more bad than good..or at least beliefs..not everything is perfectly balanced all the time.

[Ametrine]

Snip.

Ah. You see, I assumed you liked the concepts and aesthetics of Garlemald, and have just been disappointed repeatedly from them being solidly villainous. Even so far as being an overarching antagonistic for the majority of FFXIV's franchise.

Although I disagree with you on basically everything in regards to characters like Gaius and Varis (I'll spare you why since it's silly to argue that at this point), that explains your stance quite a bit and the source of your hopes.

I just look at Garlemald and see a society diseased and the parallels to real-life oppresive regimes. How in our attempts to save people on the ground is basically treating a symptom and not the underlying cause.

In this case, Garlemald's entire leadership that considers anyone not Garlean by birth barely human at all, thus both purpetuating violence, and not doing anything to halt it or punish it.


Fordola's storyline is a fine example of how backwards it all is. Even the "best" citizens were just vile savages if they weren't pureblood. Curious how it ended up different for Asahi.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

I'm all for nuance, too, but as has been brought up before - whatever grey areas are inherent to the setting, the narrative still very clearly champions modern values, and active imperialism is very much outside modern values. I wouldn't get my hopes up for seeing the game present the "benefits" of an empire, particularly given how Garlemald is shown going about it.

That shouldn't be taken as a suggestion that Garlemald should/will be nothing more than cartoon villains; I think we can get shades of grey without presenting their thirst for violent conquest beyond their immediate borders as a good thing. I just think that, given the game's approach to such things in the past, it's seriously unlikely to happen.