Can we maybe slow the power creep down a bit

[Claire_Pendragon]

There's 2 types of Horizontal leveling btw.
The "build a character" type, which is what most MMO devs dont want. (and most horizontal fans do)
And then there's prety much what we already have, except no power creep.

Example:

Once you reach max level, lets say you have cheap starter gear Lv70, this can be bought/farmed.
Then you have semi customized class gear. Generally similar stats, but closer to "BiS", so the difference is minimal, and technically the same iLv.

This "part" needs to be repeated on every job you reach max level with.

Then you do the current endgame content to unlock gear for that content.
Example:
Deltascape gear adds "Does extra damage to all enemies within the deltascape"

Next patch, Sigmascape comes out, and all gear adds "Enemies within Sigmascape take more dmg."
But the base stats are identical otherwise.

You can use your deltascape gear to enter into omegascape, or you can use your job quest gear to enter (unless we flip it, and bought gear is the starter gear)

Omegascape gear offers... you guessed it "enemies within omegascape take more dmg"

you get the SAME result we currently have, but NO POWER CREEP!
(Its not the horizontal progression people want, but it DOES make all content equally challenging, and feel equally viable to everyone honestly.)

[Lord_Zlatan]

Having all this horizontal gear is only useful if you can switch it on demand, otherwise you end up getting bis anyways. While you had a lot of options, realistically you were limited to a BiS depending on your level of endgame involvement. It's not a panacea.

no, its not a panacea for sure. there just need to be maybe 3 options PER CLASS (not role), with a base option (default) for each role. Your AF gear, for example, should certainly augment your classes abilities at the cost of some lower stats. Do you want that extra 70 potency on soul eater from wearing 6 pieces of the abyssal set, or do you want the extra STR/VIT that comes with the lost allagan stuff? I dont see why the devs seam allergic to this stuff.

as a side not, i really hated that half the time i switched gear sets in FFXI my charachter would go blank for a sec, and when you do that 80 times per fight, its a little lame.

[Chalbee]

I really don't get this "obsolete" mentality. Like, just because something more powerful will eventually come along, any current gear is worthless? Even though it's currently the best available? Are you just going to run around in subpar gear forever then? Because there will always be more powerful gear. I really, honestly don't get this. I'm always happy when new gear comes out because it means I'll have something new to strive for. Which is fun. To me, anyway.

I mean, I still do accumulate new gear, I just don't try very hard or do it very quickly because I know there's not much reward for the effort. Gear in this game is a treadmill, so I set it on low and walk.

[odintius]

I mean, I still do accumulate new gear, I just don't try very hard or do it very quickly because I know there's not much reward for the effort. Gear in this game is a treadmill, so I set it on low and walk.

This is pretty much me as well and then go play something else after the burnt out sets in.

[kikix12]

Having all this horizontal gear is only useful if you can switch it on demand, otherwise you end up getting bis anyways. While you had a lot of options, realistically you were limited to a BiS depending on your level of endgame involvement. It's not a panacea.

What is the point of various gear pieces if you can switch it in an instance at any point?! None, zero, null, nada. That's the exact example of when having all that horizontal gear is NOT useful, since it basically invalidates the notion of choice. You're always going to be needing only one specific gear set anyway, except it will change every second of a battle rather than no more often than every fight. If you CANNOT change it at will, but only between fights, you will have to stick with that one set of gear.

And no, there should be no such thing as "BIS". That's because humans are different, even if mathematics are not. Player A may make better use of option A than the mathematically superior option B, because that's better suited to his play style. Unless the difference will be in pure stats which have absolutely no difference between varied play styles, hence they remove the human aspect, that is.

Even on that note, there is going to be variety if done properly. I will give you an example of a "good" and "bad" horizontal progression based purely on stats, both from the very same game in early and late stages of it.

Using something that works pretty much like materia, people could "Lapis" into their gears slots. However, there was a catch. One could only put one lapis of the same name into the same piece. There originally were lapis from 1 to 5 for every stat, with gears having up to six slots. You wanted to focus on one stat, you got diminishing returns. The total amount of stats you got was lower, since you had to put weaker and weaker lapis for every further slot. If you went for too many of the "strong" lapis from various stats, you would, on the other hand, be behind in all of them. As a result, there were many builts that combined the stat distribution and lapis sockets best suited for the player, and though there WERE "standards", like have at least this and this of that stat and this and that of that stat...great players that had their build noticeably modified were common. It was not "BIS" build, but the "safe standard" build.

However, the game progressed and new lapis came in...since it was a business and slotting better lapis successfully did cost a LOT of real life money. However, what matters here, is that there were many new options that basically bypassed the limitation of "one of a kind". Lapis with two stats, three stats, ones with superior special additions and so on. As a result, no matter the play style, there was a build "superior", since doing it any other way would actually leave all of your stats behind.

Now, that shows how much difference there is between a "good" development and "bad" development. And remember, all of it was in the same game with the same mechanics throughout its life. The changes to the underlying systems there over few years of me playing were smaller than an in-between patch can bring in Final Fantasy XIV, and stats and their effects were both linear and well-known. So, there you have it.


All in all, "BIS" is different from player to player. Even if every player will use only one set from every tier, various players will use different sets, and that is the point of that progression. If I don't like a set with, say, piety, then I could pick and stick with a set that have determination, for example. Another person would have picked spell speed instead. That's the point. Different players could pick their own "BIS".

[Dzian]

I really don't get this "obsolete" mentality. Like, just because something more powerful will eventually come along, any current gear is worthless? Even though it's currently the best available? Are you just going to run around in subpar gear forever then? Because there will always be more powerful gear. I really, honestly don't get this. I'm always happy when new gear comes out because it means I'll have something new to strive for. Which is fun. To me, anyway.

Generally casual players will always have sub par gear anyway by the very nature of the gear design.
My samurai was i330 when 4.2 landed for example and my pld main was 334. nothing close to 340. So always going to be in "sub par gear" because half the time I don't even bother capping tomes,

The point though is that everything is so temporary you never really achieve anything. To spin it slightly. Gear is basically like a band aid on a gaping wound. It's not a fix, it's not a reward it's not satisfying to get. It's just a band aid to tide you over temporarily till you get the augment or the next piece or something.

I think it's a big part of why the game has so many player retention problems and stuff because it's just not rewarding. Everything is so temporary and cheap.

I mean, I still do accumulate new gear, I just don't try very hard or do it very quickly because I know there's not much reward for the effort. Gear in this game is a treadmill, so I set it on low and walk.

kinda like this myself. don't even cap tomes most weeks there's just no point.

I know its also why many people I know have stopped playing. because its just not rewarding to play

[AxlStream]

I mean if being at max ilvl does nothing for you, that's really your problem. I love being able to ease up farms and push the jobs I play to their limits. Can't do that in sub par gear. On top of that, it does make the PFs groups a bit more tolerable knowing I can pull a lot more weight with the padded stats. Also we sorta needed 340 to even try Ultimate (or BiS at any rate, looking at you pentamelded accessories).