This is all DRKs get?

[Hruodig]

Ergo a DPS that can hold hate and take a hit. That's what passes for Tanking in this game. It's pitiful. Healer will top you off anyway.

That's not really related to my comment, but ok.

[Silver_Blade]

A DRK must have kicked one of the devs out of their FC or lost his raid spot to one.
Everybody can clearly see DRK is grossly underpowered and taking one over a WAR or PLD is a straight up detriment to a group.
They can't just be oblivious to something so easy to see.
BLM and SAM are in the same boat. There is no way the devs can't see the problems that are so obvious.
SAM and BLM bring no utility and don't do enough DPS to make up for their lack of it.
Any other class even one that does less damage will still bring more dps overall as all classes except DRK SAM and BLM bring support and utility. These classes either have to be doing significantly more DPS or give them some utility because as it is they are a straight up dps / utility loss to bring.

[Awful]

Snip

Here's the thing you don't need tank stance for EX trials or Savage shocking I know, as long as your co tank is Shirking and you're doing the same you'll never lose threat ever, nothing in this game is gonna one shot you unless you didn't pop a CD. Hell Susano is a bad example as we've out geared it quite heavily as well and even in current content I was tanking it out of tank stance and I played exclusively only Drk even at the beginning of the pull I was out of tank stance using TBN to eat those cleaves it's not hard you just have to understand your class.

Healers not being able to heal you as effectively is just a cop out honestly there is no wet noodle tank because TBs in most high end content aren't the issues it's the random auto attacks and crits that'll end you faster than anything. Healers are absurdly powerful in this game and they have so many tools that it's quite frankly insane what they can do whether it comes to their utility, DPS, they're just ontop because they have the most control over a group when it comes to encounters because you need them.

I dunno when you started tanking but you can do anything without a tank stance you just need to actively use your toolkit as tanks are far from squish as long as you don't eat a TB with nothing or pull a gigantic pack in a dungeon without tank stance and pop 0 CDs then you're fine, when I do pulls I solidify threat and drop stance and AoE them down as a Drk while rotating my CDs it's just a matter of skill.

I know people have responded to you just giving you my view on it as a discussion bottom line is tanks are in full control of how much damage they take and don't need the cushion of a tank stance, healers are the backbone of a group and can do so much that people really don't give them enough credit.

[Silver_Blade]

I like some of the suggestions people have been throwing around. to make up for lack of utility. Well you could give it utility instead, like Sole Survivor also places a vulnerability up debuff on the target to boost raid dps. If that's too much... I guess an aoe shield mitigation to match the other two tanks?

That is probably the best and easiest fix for DRK i have heard. Make sole survivor 10% damage vulnerability for 20 seconds (since it is 120 sec cooldown or decrease cooldown to 60 and make it 10 second duration). Or make it act similar to stratagen and give crit vulnerability. Either of these would be easy and fix the problem WAR could still be the highest dps but DRK raises the groups DPS. It shocks me how many idea's the community has come up with to fix DRK but SE ignores them all.

[RLofOBFL]

^ that is broken.
DRK is as fine as ever in action. I just downed o6s after 2h30m of blind prog in 340 gear with my DRK mt and I was tanking the floor a lot more than he was as PLD. TBN is actually brokenly powerful on Single Target, moreso than people seem to think. Tanks are p close in balance rn and MOST of the suggested changes people on these forums give would absolutely crush any type of balance or border on broken like a sole survivor vuln up.

[Silver_Blade]

Because you cleared X changes nothing. It is simple fact that DRK has the lowest DPS the lowest mitigation no raid utility except a single target spell and the lowest sustainability.
Your results do not make your assertion true.

You can't argue facts the skills simply are not there for DRK.
All you clearing a fight with DRK shows is that your healers are good and your team made up the deficit for bringing you.
And the above change is literally just trick attack on a 2 minute cd without the 400 potency.
Every class in the game except 3 have a buff or some type of utility. Those three classes are the ones nobody wants. WHM doesn't have utility but they are the best at what they do, Raw healing. We either need utility or something to claim as our own.

[Ekimmak]

I feel like the devs ignoring DRK means that they see something in it the community doesn't.

I'm beginning to suspect it's that they expect DRK to be the most survivable tank at the cost of the lowest damage (ie Using TBN on cooldown), but everyone swears off it because it's a (slight) dps loss.

Of course, that's just tin-hat talk.

[Silver_Blade]

I feel like the devs ignoring DRK means that they see something in it the community doesn't.

I'm beginning to suspect it's that they expect DRK to be the most survivable tank at the cost of the lowest damage (ie Using TBN on cooldown), but everyone swears off it because it's a (slight) dps loss.

Of course, that's just tin-hat talk.

Clemency kinda kills that idea. It restores 30-50% of a paladins HP and they can spam it. A paladin using riot blade and sheltron can do exactly what you describe. Super low dps but crazy survivability.
So does warrior having HP recovery on their combo finisher AND Inner beast and two instant hp recovery skills.
DRK's only single target hp recovery is weaker than both WAR's and PLD and TBN is on a 15 second CD. If you mean AoE then yeah we function pretty well in that but raid bosses don't frequently have 4-5 targets to make it effective.

[MagiusNecros]

I feel like the devs ignoring DRK means that they see something in it the community doesn't.

I'm beginning to suspect it's that they expect DRK to be the most survivable tank at the cost of the lowest damage (ie Using TBN on cooldown), but everyone swears off it because it's a (slight) dps loss.

Of course, that's just tin-hat talk.

As a FF fan from the FF1 days where DRK had high defense and bitching damage in the standard games it was present in I am in conflict against their design philosophy for DRK in XIV. For a game that metes out physical damage, magic damage, and a darkness damage type that ignores defense values and the DRK not being able to inflict Darkness damage at all is baffling to me.

Right now you use DRK for either dungeon runs(which right now it's more fun to go WAR) or use DRK for progression. All while being clunky and overwhelming with some skills not even being used at all or using skills requires a lot of work just to barely break even.

And most of DRK is really centered around TBN. And wants you to MT.

[Delily]

As a FF fan from the FF1 days where DRK had high defense and bitching damage in the standard games it was present in I am in conflict against their design philosophy for DRK in XIV. For a game that metes out physical damage, magic damage, and a darkness damage type that ignores defense values and the DRK not being able to inflict Darkness damage at all is baffling to me.

Right now you use DRK for either dungeon runs(which right now it's more fun to go WAR) or use DRK for progression. All while being clunky and overwhelming with some skills not even being used at all or using skills requires a lot of work just to barely break even.

And most of DRK is really centered around TBN. And wants you to MT.

DRK was not present in FF1, it first appeared as a non playable job in 2, and then in 3, there was the Demon Swordsman who was turned into the Dark Knight. However, the DRK's basic design has pretty much been one of sacrificing health in order to do high damage. In theory, DRK should be the highest damage tank with poor survivability that's offset with heath leech abilities. Right now, it's centered around both TBN and DA, but it's not consistent. DP is worthless, and in some cases, you can have a full bar of blood with nothing to use it on.