Warrior changes are unwelcome.

[Silver_Blade]

It really is.
Dark Knight has significantly lower mitigation and lower sustainability, less dps and less utility.
WAR is in a good place as is PLD. The only tank with actual issues right now is DRK.

[Satarn]

True, but since it's a 10 sec window instead of 20, it'll probably be harder to miss so... I kinda like the change. Well see how it ggoes. = D

It's quite the opposite actually. With old IR you had to fit 4 gcds into a 10 second window(8 gcds in 20 seconds). In new IR you need to fit 5 gcds into 10 seconds. So not only missing just one gcd is an even worse dps loss, it is also more likely to happen due to an arbitrary reason such as lag.

[OmegaSinX]

blah blah Warrior DPS is weaker in Tankstance because of 10% decrease of Stormeye blah blah.

But you Forget about Unchained. Most people didn't use it because it conflicted with Inner Release. On top of this, its CD was reduced. So now instead of 2 Damage boosters in Defiance, they now have 3: Unchained, Inner Release, Storm's Eye. Also, now that you can IR in Defiance, WAR will see a DPS boost from all the Steel Cyclones/Inner Beast uses.

Your calculation doesnt account for the guaranteed CRIT/DET. Crits have a base 1.45x damage modifier that gets higher with your Critical Hit Rate . Direct Hits have a base 1.25x damage modifier. At 1403, crit modifier is about 1.49x. with those stats Direct Crits have approximately 1.86x modifier which will only get higher as your Critical hit rate goes up.

[OmegaSinX]

Just unsubbed. I only like playing warrior, that's why I have 3 level 70 warriors. These new changes are a huge DPS nerf, and a huge fun nerf and I'm going back to not playing....This is unacceptable.

You haven't even tested the changes yet but you've determined it's unfun and a huge nerf? By the way, people have run the numbers and its actually a DPS increase. WAR was already on top in regard to DPS amongst tanks, now they've further solidified that lead. People like you will never be happy. Good Riddance.

[DamianTenbe]

WAR is still OP as hell so if you are crying because you are slightly less OP than before I dunno what to tell you.

Brother, most of the war mains are not only mad about numbers decrease but overall playstyle change. That wasn't needed and not welcome, mostly that the current 4.1 war is on perfect spot. I wouldn't care that much if they would play with numbers here and there as much but learning the job every patch? Especially they drk needs this kind of attention.

[NyneSwordz]

"Most of war mains." I don't think you know "most" war mains. I think the changes are going to be fine. So there's at least 1 war main who thinks it's aight.

[MerleSirlos]

Brother, most of the war mains are not only mad about numbers decrease but overall playstyle change. That wasn't needed and not welcome, mostly that the current 4.1 war is on perfect spot. I wouldn't care that much if they would play with numbers here and there as much but learning the job every patch? Especially they drk needs this kind of attention.

Thing is, playstyle change is unrelated to dps change, but for some reason they are always put together. Even worse, the dps change is what is put more in the spotlight and the biggest focus on most post. So it makes it hard to believe that the main reason for complains isn't about numbers.

Since the preliminary patch note came out, I saw mainly 3 points of view "clashing":

1) DPS buff/nerf claims. So many people doing preliminary maths about it and each of them doing it differently with a different result to prove they are right and most of them not including everything. The one from Emiin Vanih of The Balance Discord, theoryjerks, was really interesting and the most complete so far. His conclusion was great "it's a buff, but I don't like it because of X", X being a gameplay issue he explains in the analysis. Numbers by themselves don't matter. If you do 450dps to a 1M HP boss, it's the same as doing 4500dps to a 10M HP boss. People should stop seeing a nerf as something negative, it's part of the balance process and it's not limited to jobs only. Boss' dps and HP are an important part of the overall balance too. Sure, at present, current tanks are not yet well balanced as there's too much difference between them and it needs to change in the right way.

2) Gameplay change. You either like it or you don't, not much that can be argumented on that front. However, most people just go and complain that the job was dumbed down and is not fun to play anymore. How do you know without trying? You can maybe have a vague idea of if it would be fun for you or not. but stating that it's not fun as if it's a fact doesn't put you in a very good spot to give your opinion. Complicated doesn't mean it's fun. Something can be complicated and fun, but something can also be simple and fun. If what you liked about warrior was the more complicated rotation and reward for doing it right, I can feel bad for you for loosing what you liked about it. But there is a way to present it respectfully and not trash on people that might find the new warrior fun.
People liked the HW warrior and found SB warrior too complicated, it got simplified to an inbetween (that's how I feel it looks, not sure really if it's more or less complicated than HW warrior yet) and it looks like the end of the world.

3) Looking at what can be done, synergies between the job skills and traits or synergies with other jobs. It's the part I enjoy the most but unfortunatly, most of the time, it ends up as "IR doesn't align well with other raid buffs". While I agree it's unfortunate, it's a shame that some very interesting points are glossed over or simply ignored. Like how the new IR makes the Infuriate trait relevant, with a CD reduction of 20 to 30 seconds during IR window. The 4-6 Steel Cyclone that is going to melt trash pulls in dungeons. Unchained back to being usefull and even having a CD reduction! Those kind of things are interesting and will play a part in rotation optimisation, but more often than not they are just replied to with a "doesn't matter, we got nerfed hard".

[NyneSwordz]

It's quite the opposite actually. With old IR you had to fit 4 gcds into a 10 second window(8 gcds in 20 seconds). In new IR you need to fit 5 gcds into 10 seconds. So not only missing just one gcd is an even worse dps loss, it is also more likely to happen due to an arbitrary reason such as lag.

Not really. Old IR we had to weave in 2 combo hits so it was just as tight. Tried néw IR this morning. Hitting 5 fc is easy and no need to weave in 2 combos. It's much, much easier dude. And before, ud have to prep the burst with a hs before start.

[NyneSwordz]

Changes are fun imo. Played for an hour this morning and it was great. 5 fc plus upheaval and onslaught in the window. Sometimes youcan Get 8 fc back to back if infuriate is off cooldown and u have full guage. I can see some opportunities for optimization/higher skill play. So yeah, I dunno, I think changes are more fun. Well see how it pans out, but I'm optimistic.

[Fyce]

Sometimes youcan Get 8 fc back to back if infuriate is off cooldown and u have full guage.

Be careful with that, Infuriate is now more important than before, so if you start your Inner Release burst with it being off cooldown already, you'll be wasting a lot of cooldown reduction from Enhanced Infuriate.