Red Mage Skills in 5.0 [Fun Suggestions]

[Zyneste]

I understood that, what I meant was "what does it actually bring to the job?". Getting new spells is something core of the expansion, it's about feeling more powerful, progression. When you leveled your BLM to 60 and got FireIV, you felt the change, when your SMN got Dreadwyrm Stance, the first mega laser you shot was like "boom yassss!". Same for 70 with Foul (for me at least) and Demi Bahamut.

When I look at your spells, they just feel like fillers. (Like, the useful trash we get inbetween, like Acceleration) The cureII is the one I'm the most excited about.

They remotely change how you play and I'm actually looking forward a deeper gameplay and new mechanic for 80. Not the exact same RDM with 2 differences (and I prefer current Holy/Flare anyway)
Not "that". It feels like MNK who got almost nothing new in 2 xpac.

Not every spell, every expac can be more powerful than the last without consequence. Look at Ruin III and Ruin IV. If every expac upgrade had a new foul for every class, that wouldnt be very interesting either. The "old" foul would get nerfed and the new one would just replace it. Flare and Holy know that well. Good classes get new synergies that make their toolkits shine in a different light. Equipoise, being able to convert stored procs into Fleche level burst, while cashing in all of those procs AND getting a new proc that compliments your current mana balance is a VER-Y powerful and synergistic skill. Verbatim, being able to do Verholy/Flare which are locked behind an 80 mana cast melee combo at a free and instant speed is very powerful in its own right. VerHoly! VerHoly! Also being able to make use of its flexibility for the standard part of your rotation/utility to ease your MP burden is amazing to me.

[TraeSnow]

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I don't follow threads and I started to avoid the "RDM need buffs" threads because they are mostly toxic. So I didn't see your comment. It is nice to know though I had no idea their oCDs were physical.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

I don't follow threads and I started to avoid the "RDM need buffs" threads because they are mostly toxic. So I didn't see your comment. It is nice to know though I had no idea their oCDs were physical.

They're not toxic, you just say things that get pointed out as not making sense from a gameplay and in a couple occasions lore perspective.

[Sho86]

The problem is that these niche saving utilities come at a cost that they don't outweigh. We're in the red (bad pun) as far as it comes to actual utility. Vercure and Verraise are only useful if things go wrong otherwise our only contribution is Embolden and less DPS than Bard which has a far larger rDPS contribution, and arguably just as useful defensive utility and Refresh utility.

I'm not going to pretend to know the figures each job does in exacts or perfect scenarios, or in any case for that matter. My base idea still stands regardless. If we are lacking in dps to other comparable jobs, in this case bard, then buff it up (I never once said RDMs dps should be left alone.) If the utility is lacking, then improve the utility, don't destroy it. As far as FF conventions being all over the place; this is far from the first game, considering how many are out there. That argument could've been used for Paladin and having no native cure at launch; yet it does now because many of the consumers wanted that aspect put back into Paladin. Introducing a class/job that is known for a specific style, then yanking out half of the style midway through isn't the answer.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

I'm not going to pretend to know the figures each job does in exacts or perfect scenarios, or in any case for that matter. My base idea still stands regardless. If we are lacking in dps to other comparable jobs, in this case bard, then buff it up (I never once said RDMs dps should be left alone.) If the utility is lacking, then improve the utility, don't destroy it. As far as FF conventions being all over the place; this is far from the first game, considering how many are out there. That argument could've been used for Paladin and having no native cure at launch; yet it does now because many of the consumers wanted that aspect put back into Paladin. Introducing a class/job that is known for a specific style, then yanking out half of the style midway through isn't the answer.

You can't just improve the utility because it's niche though, then it becomes mandatory and the damage aspect of the class falls further and further behind. Paladins didn't just "get" Clemency either, they had to wait for an expansion before they got it. The specific style as I said already is Black Magic, White Magic, and modest Swordplay, easily could've been limited to offensive magic. Yeah FF conventions are all over the place in this game. Sure the 'having more support options' route is something to do in a turn based, single player game like the majority of the main series titles, but this an MMO with different style combat and a specific categorization of classes. Red Mage is DPS not a fancy Green/Red Hybrid role. And I didn't say to destroy the utility, the two defensive utility options (which are a terrible category for classes, look at White Mage and Paladin in 3.x) are fine enough as it is, we don't need more, if anything Verraise needs to be toned down so we aren't hampered further by the 'oh well they might save the whole run if 4+ people die in the span of a minute' excuse, since we are a DPS class.

[Dualgunner]

Edit: this is what I get for trying to post a long reply on phone lol

The issue is, Sho, for every utility they give RDM they need to drop dps total for balance purposes. If all of RDM's support is healing, then they should have dropped RDM into the game as a healer.

RDM could do with more support options, but a double verraise and an aoe regen are not those options. They'll only push RDM further into prog babysitter territory, where they're taken for prog and then swapped out.

Positive support would be the kind that buffs party damage. Which I route back to where I said "anything they don't do to dps should be contributing to dps."

There's nothing wrong at all with spot healing. Did it on thm back in haukke 2.x, did it as RDM a lot as well. But there is something wrong if healers see a RDM and expect them to do their job for them. As someone who had to act as a solo heal rdm with a sch in the party in a thordan ex farm, I know the over reliance can be ridiculous.

[TraeSnow]

They're not toxic, you just say things that get pointed out as not making sense from a gameplay and in a couple occasions lore perspective.

EDIT: I'm not going to bother with one of the trolls of RDM. It would be a huge insult to OP if I followed suit and derailed this thread.

[Dualgunner]

EDIT: I'm not going to bother with one of the trolls of RDM. It would be a huge insult to OP if I followed suit and derailed this thread.

Then delete your post entirely tbh. You just left this as intentional bait.

[Pastahnak]

I really want red mage to lose verraise as i think its holding the job back from having more useful skills or just higher damage overall (im just assuming here but i think red mage does less damage because the dev team considers verraise to be highly useful, it is but only for prog) id love a succor type ability where i can apply a seperate shield to the party and maybe a insta cast cooldown that i can give to another party member aka you see your healer slow casting raise and u use this cooldown on them so they instantly cast their raise so you become more of an indirect rezdispenser over what we are now maybe allowing us to gain some potency buffs to be an even more bursty dps than what we are now.

I do like the skills you've made yourself and the icons im assuming you designed are really cool.

[Zyneste]

I really want red mage to lose verraise as i think its holding the job back from having more useful skills or just higher damage overall (im just assuming here but i think red mage does less damage because the dev team considers verraise to be highly useful, it is but only for prog) id love a succor type ability where i can apply a seperate shield to the party and maybe a insta cast cooldown that i can give to another party member aka you see your healer slow casting raise and u use this cooldown on them so they instantly cast their raise so you become more of an indirect rezdispenser over what we are now maybe allowing us to gain some potency buffs to be an even more bursty dps than what we are now.

I do like the skills you've made yourself and the icons im assuming you designed are really cool.

Yeah this is pretty much hubbies post because he's bored. He borrowed icons from the game and just changed hues mostly. Faster acceleration is acceleration with darker red in the back and purple crystal. Red Blur is corps and displacement placed on top of each other, rotated so that they both "pierced" the same spot and hued Red. Vercure II is vercure and cure II with a darker blue hue. Equipoise is tridisaster with more red/yellow/pink elements. Verbatim was the most fun with Apocastasis having it's coloring changed, the black circle removed and Plenary indulgence underneath it.

I don't want raise taken away from, because then without a living healer or summoner it's useless. No more clutch raise the healer lb3 (like smn would still be able to do. ) I think a fair trade off would be to give RDM an ability based Raise with a cd of 15-30 seconds off the GCD, costing the same MP. Still puts RDM as a favored raiser, but limits mass raising. A party wide mana ward (succor equivalent) might be a little cheap since BLM can only shield itself. I suggested a regen, because it rolls over into battle, helps healers fit in an extra dps attacking once the invuln of the boss is over and doesn't give yet another class a party wide shield. No DPS have the ability now but stacking succor, shake it off, divine veil and a rdm shield and you're getting crazy with effective HP.