SE, Please consider removing EX trials from the Mentor Roulette.

[TheAngelneer]

However, I don't think there is any harm in players choosing to believe the roulette's function is to serve as a method for mentors to help new players given the Mentor system as a whole is designed for that in mind. Besides, the deliberate function of the roulette seems like a tangent to the topic at hand.

The harm is on people trying to shut down legitimate discussions by going on a moral crusade about things they didn't even bother to read what they were signing in for. The deliberate function of the roulette is one of major points in the topic at hand, once you inform yourself what the roulette is about all the comments saying that this suggestion is bad because "bad mentors don't want to help newbies" are moot and there aren't any other points being made against the removal of ex trials beside those.

You can choose to believe whatever you want, but trying to use it on a discussion is, as you said, trying to pass opinion as fact.

[Hestzhyen]

Mentor roulette was created with the express purpose of filling long queues.


Source: https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...3d2c4227dfdc2e

People riding the moral high-horse are the ones trying to pass their opinion as fact.

I'm not trying to get any moral high ground here, I'm just saying I go in with the intent to help regardless of what I get matched into. It forces the mentor status on you when you use it to get matched into duty so yes you are there to be a Mentor, even if it's a pre-made group of vets who have run the instance a thousand times and needed a back-fill because of a D/C. You don't have to be a teacher in every situation. But you should definitely be prepared if the situation calls for it- that's what the status is there for. Don't wear the crown if you don't want to help or participate in what you draw out of that roulette IMO.

[TheAngelneer]

I'm not trying to get any moral high ground here (...) Don't wear the crown if you don't want to help or participate in what you draw out of that roulette IMO.

This is just outright denial of the evidence in front of you now.

[Spiriel_Basanda]

Now, I'm not really to concerned about what it's actually designed for, cause I can't do it, but Yoshi-P himself did say that Mentor Roulette does try to prioritize sprouts and people who haven't cleared a dungeon yet. Here:https://blog.eu.playstation.com/2016...mentor-system/

" a special duty roulette called “Duty Roulette: Mentor” that is only available for mentors will be added. This roulette will grant a priority on matching mentors with new players or players who haven’t beaten the specific dungeon or trial yet."

So you have patchnotes and a quote from Yoshi-P about Mentor Roulette and what it actually does. What does it actually do? YOU DECIDE!!!

[Kaurhz]

It's a mentor roulette for a reason. If you aren't willing or don't wish to do what it throws at you then don't do it in the first place. Extreme Primals definitely have a place in that roulette. Maybe not everyone will enjoy getting an extreme primal, but again, if you aren't prepared don't run it.

[TheAngelneer]

snip

This interview was conducted before the patch went live and before the official patch notes were released. What Yoshi-P said could have been one of the proposed ideas on how the Mentor Roulette would work, but in the end we didn't get that version of it.

[Hestzhyen]

This is just outright denial of the evidence in front of you now.

It's my opinion. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I just think Mentors should be held to higher standards than the rest when it comes to skill. Obviously, others don't hold the same ideas but they're not inferior to me in any way. They just play for different reasons than I do. (The only people I hold in derision are the people who shouldn't become mentors because of behavioral or attitude problems that would be unacceptable for any player to have, like berating people, harassment, deliberate trolling, etc.) This is about mentor roulette though- if you don't want to do EX primals, you probably shouldn't do the roulette. Whether the backfill or the newbie matching is being prioritized by the system is irrelevant when people are complaining that EX trials are too hard to pug with randoms and should thus be excluded. I don't want people to feel excluded or tell them to "git gud" so maybe going in with the idea that progress=victory might help ease their tension and curb some expectations. These fights ARE puggable, just not in a single session most of the time. It's like signing up for a prog group in PF, only without the foresight of which fight you're going to get. I've been in groups that have cleared before- it's not impossible.

Truth be told, I very rarely get EX Trails unless I'm queueing in MR as DPS. I suggest people who don't want to get EX primals to queue as healer - the vast majority of the time I do I get placed in Guildhests and dungeons, sometimes Alliance raids. It's not a guarantee but it's worth trying.

[Spiriel_Basanda]

This interview was conducted before the patch went live and before the official patch notes were released. What Yoshi-P said could have been one of the proposed ideas on how the Mentor Roulette would work, but in the end we didn't get that version of it.

You suggest that 10 days or so before the patch came out, Yoshi-P and co were undecided on how the roulette would work? It's possible, I suppose. Maybe it was what they intended and just couldn't get it in time and you're right, I'm just not sure I'd believe he'd say that's what it does so close to the patch if that's not actually what it does.

[Kurando]

In the end perhaps certain Mentors just need to drop any kind of attitude that THEY should get an easy Mentor Roulette. It's there to assist players that may be doing a duty for the first time and would benefit getting help from other more experienced players. Yes that moment when you load up in to an Ex Trial and you wonder how well it's going to go can often make you question why you bothered to queue. But going in to the Roulette expecting something quick and easy is pretty selfish, and should not be treated as your own personal Roulette. Help others like you would of been helped, and even if you do end up leaving or using vote abandon, everyone can say they at least tried to complete it.

[BillyKaplan]

I don't think there is any harm in players choosing to believe the roulette's function is to serve as a method for mentors to help new players

There is. A lot of mentors aren't the epitome of gaming etiquette SE hoped we'd be, but a lot of players, not even new ones, approach us with entitlement that ends up in witch hunts the likes of which are actually pretty common in the forums when the topic arises. Thinking someone owes you something in general, and especially when it's not true in particular, is one of worst mindsets to have, makes things escalate more often than not, and occasionally ends in abuse. You don't deserve your crown, you suck, you should be penalized for an hour... sure no one called me names (most of the time) but that's not exactly nice things either when I haven't broken a single rule as established by SE. But hey, they think they're entitled to my time even when they wipe three times to the same mechanic I already explained, so ya know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's there to assist players that may be doing a duty for the first time

No it's not.

But going in to the Roulette expecting something quick and easy is pretty selfish, and should not be treated as your own personal Roulette.

But that's exactly what you're doing right now, with someone else's roulette to boot...

If you aren't willing or don't wish to do what it throws at you then don't do it in the first place.

Bailing instantly on content you don't care to run is hardly a Mentor roulette exclusive issue though. The first steps of faith in the trials roulette, DD and AV in the leveling roulette, there're certain bits of content a lot of people would rather take the penalty than complete. Mentor roulette having that issue is simply an extension of Mentors being people. Now I'm not saying your premise is flawed by itself, but making it seem like it's a Mentors only problem is.