Warrior changes are unwelcome.

[Izsha]

hy·per·bo·le
hīˈpərbəlē/
noun
noun: hyperbole; plural noun: hyperboles

exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.


Everything I said is true and is meant to be taken literally.

Except its not all true. I wont repost number for the 3rd time this hour alone. TLDR: Burst skill changes are overall sidegrade damage. Eye/Potency changes are 5% nerf but we will get 3-4 more FCs in a 90 sec cycle than we do now which should put it right back in the mix. This is only high end optimal play. Lower end/casual play with intermitant or full time defiance play just got a MAJOR buff with unchained separation, IR in defiance. Defiance war also got MUCH tougher. All those extra FCs I just mentioned can also be IBs. Also Direct Crit IB x5? Sure ill bene myself.

You can hate the playstyle change all you want. Fun is subjective. You do you boo.

But don't go around touting BS numbers that are factually incorrect.

[wish12oz]

Except its not all true. I wont repost number for the 3rd time this hour alone. TLDR: Burst skill changes are overall sidegrade damage.

But don't go around touting BS numbers that are factually incorrect.

Except that most of warriors damage is because of berserked FC's during trick attack windows, which every other job also uses buffs during, which your berserk windows no longer line up with correctly. And what about all the DH materia you're melding in your gear that is now also useless during berserk. If you think it's only a small decrease, you're not looking at the whole picture. The old 30% buff was way more powerful of an effect than 100% DH/CH rate. Plus it's not like PLD and DRK are to far behind WAR DPS as it is. It doesn't take that much of a decline for WAR to drop to the most useless tank. On top of that, you're no longer using onslaught so much during Berserk or between Berserkers, so your hate is going to be a lot worse without a ninja.

[Fyce]

Except that most of warriors damage is because of berserked FC's during trick attack windows, which every other job also uses buffs during, which your berserk windows no longer line up with correctly.

Are the math actually done on that one, or are you just assuming that missing 1 out or 3 Trick Attack window is detrimental because it seems like it?
Berserk doesn't exist anymore at level 70 btw.

And what about all the DH materia you're melding in your gear that is now also useless during berserk Inner Release.

That doesn't matter as we'll be changing gear soon (and that we can unmeld some of it and get a few back anyway). And if Direct Hit isn't BiS anymore, then so be it. It's not like Materia VI are hard to get. Also, we already knew that Crit would outdo DH anyway... but now, for WAR, Crit is probably the primary substat to focus on without even having to check at the upcoming stat weight.
Anyway, this change just gives more weight to Crit, and less to DH. Which should raise SS, Det and Ten.

If you think it's only a small decrease, you're not looking at the whole picture. The old 30% buff was way more powerful of an effect than 100% DH/CH rate.

You aren't looking at it either as you're only considering the Inner Release window. Not consuming the beast gauge means that you will have your burst window no matter what happen and no matter what your beast gauge looks like. This also mean that you're completly free to use your gauge for a Fell Cleave every 6 GCD without any impact on your burst. Using the beast gauge for an Inner Beast is also something that absolutly doesn't affect your burst now.
You also now have the option for an "Inner Beast burst" in Defiance, which is something that was impossible before. Not saying that this is really relevant or that it'll be of any practical use, but more options are nice to have.

Plus it's not like PLD and DRK are to far behind WAR DPS as it is. It doesn't take that much of a decline for WAR to drop to the most useless tank.

Shake It Off it still extremely valuable. And for players of average skill level, the skill floor and ceiling of the job being drastically reduced will allow the average numbers to grow quite a lot. So I wouldn't be too concerned about WAR falling behind PLD and DRK.

On top of that, you're no longer using onslaught so much during Berserk Inner Release or between Berserkers Inner Releases, so your hate is going to be a lot worse without a ninja.

Don't forget that Diversion now last 30sec and cuts 90% of the generated enmity for the DPS jobs. Also, the opener for WAR is now extremely easy to perform and the burst comes quicker and stronger. If you are worried about enmity, you can simply Storm's Eye into Onslaught and even queue up with a Butcher's Block before going full on DH Crit Fell Cleaves... and then get a free DH crit Onslaught again (without Defiance).
Oh, and Unchained not sharing a cooldown with Inner Release means you will have it (Unchained) ready for every one of your Defiance pulls.

[Izsha]

Logic and Reason

Thanks for saying exactly what I was going to respond with. New inner release is a NINETY PERCENT damage increase for 10 sec. We get roughly 3+ more FCs a minute OUTSIDE of the burst windows than we do with current IR to cover the 5% dps loss.

Enmity? Diversion. Oh and maybe a gauge free direct hit crit onslaught with its 10x enmity multiplier. 100 potency? 1000 enmity. 90% DH Crit multiplier. nearly 2 THOUSAND enmity free ogcd. Unchained pulls. Tomahawk/OP potency boost. If you ever loose enmity with diversion, boosted potency on 1st actions, free unchained pull on every fight you have royally screwed up.

The sad thing is I dont even disagree on the 'fun' factor. I liked old war. I liked it a lot. Ive been playing it since 2.0 when it was terrible. But making up stuff just because youre mad about it is just stupid.

War post patch will:
*Still perform roughly the same level on deliverance damage + or - a percent here and there
*It will perform dramatically better in defiance than ever before.
*It will be better than ever before utilizing stance dancing.

*It will not 'feel' the same.

The last one is the only sad casualty of this patch. If you hate the new way it 'feels' to play war (like me) you are free to quit, unsub, change jobs, do whatever you like. But dont go around spouting bull about the 1st 3. Thats just flat misinformation. There is a thread on the same darn page with math and numbers on all this stuff, but dont let the facts get in the way of your quest to get the villagers to pick up their torches.

[Quor]

War post patch will:
*Still perform roughly the same level on deliverance damage + or - a percent here and there
*It will perform dramatically better in defiance than ever before.
*It will be better than ever before utilizing stance dancing.

*It will not 'feel' the same.

WAR in Defiance will do much less damage overall because SE is now only 10% instead of 20%. So that means instead of .75+20% (90% damage total) we now have .75+10% (or 82.5% damage total). That's a straight up nerf of 7.5% damage while in Defiance. The potency buffs and increased numbers of Fell Cleave do *not* account for a loss of 7.5% damage. Much less the outright loss of 10% damage over the course of a fight from Berserk.

While the "uptime" phase of WAR dps may or may not be "better" overall, the actual holistic package that is the WAR job has been nerfed. This wouldn't be a big deal if A.) they left SE as is, or B.) they weren't constantly pushing DPS checks and enrage timers that implicitly encourage tanks to DPS as hard as possible in order to beat the check. But every fight of significance in SB has had an enrage timer, so I highly doubt the new Omega or Byakko will be any different.

[SoulSkyheart]

Bye, have a great time.

[Izsha]

WAR in Defiance will do much less damage overall because SE is now only 10% instead of 20%. So that means instead of .75+20% (90% damage total) we now have .75+10% (or 82.5% damage total). That's a straight up nerf of 7.5% damage while in Defiance. The potency buffs and increased numbers of Fell Cleave do *not* account for a loss of 7.5% damage. Much less the outright loss of 10% damage over the course of a fight from Berserk.

While the "uptime" phase of WAR dps may or may not be "better" overall, the actual holistic package that is the WAR job has been nerfed. This wouldn't be a big deal if A.) they left SE as is, or B.) they weren't constantly pushing DPS checks and enrage timers that implicitly encourage tanks to DPS as hard as possible in order to beat the check. But every fight of significance in SB has had an enrage timer, so I highly doubt the new Omega or Byakko will be any different.

You can look at war in 3 basic ways now.

1.Full time Defiance.
2.Full time Deliverance
3. Stance dance.

*Full time Defiance, you loose (actually its 8.25% damage lost from eye, not 7.5%), but then you add in the potency buffs which is where the ~5% damage loss number comes from) you get to use IR and unchained which dramatically increases overall damage and should easily negate the 5%. Remember you can stack unchained and IR now for the DH Crit IBs. You still benefit from enhanced infuriate and will generate more IBs than currently overall. Defiance war with IR stacking unchained and more IBs easily counters 5% damage and becomes MUCH tougher. All those extra IBs and IR IBs are HP and mitigation you didnt have before. 5 DH Crit IBs? Why yes I would like to bene myself.

*Full time deliverance is what much of the discussions are about so I wont repeat that stuff.

*Hybrid stance dance: Unchained and IR are separated. Nuff said. If you stance danced before, you couldnt use unchained well....ever. Now you can. You still generate more IB/FCs overall on top of that. You still get your deliverance IR burst window. This 'version' of war actually made the most gains.

Its really much simpler than it all sounds. Look at each change


*Eye: -8.25% damage lost from Eye accross the board. All stances. Everything.

*Potency Buff: +~3ish % damage from the boosted potency. Varies a bit depending on stance and exact rotation Putting baseline damage at around -~5%.
*Additional FCs under new system. We will get at least 3 FCs minimum per 90 sec rotation. (onslaughts become FCs, New IR gives more gauge than old IR.) I suspect the additional enhanced infuriate procs from those FCs will counter the 'opportunity cost' of lost gauge GCDs from those extra FCs and nuetral out more but I need to do some more maffs with the holistic rotation. 1 FC every 30 sec (+310 potency over base combo rotation) should negate the 5% damage loss between burst windows. 30sec=12 GCDs. Base rotation for 12 GCDs with new potencies is ~210*12=2500. free 310 potency is bout 12%. Yes the natrual FCs bring that down but not by moreo than HALF which is what it would take to be a net loss. The extra FCs more than make up for the GCD eye nerf and start to cut into the AA damage nerf some. Ultimately we are going to be talking about a couple % if any. Ill know more when i finish the full rotation math.

Non burst DPS will be VERY close to what it currently is.

*Burst Windows: Ill just expand on a previous post i made on comparing the current optimal Zerk/IR windows with the new one. Based on my math in another thread:
Net potency gain of new IR is roughly 4148 pot/90 sec. 2765 potency/Min.
Net potency gain of current IR+Zerk (both windows combined) 5200 pot/2min. 2600pot/Min. This is the PERFECT zerk and zerk IR windows mind you. (2 onslaughts, 1 upheaval, 6FCs for IR etc).
Current IR/zerk are slightly undervalued as I did not account for natural DH/Crits. However even with that they would be very close to break even and we all know you dont perform perfect windows every time which drops it back down anyway.

Burst dps will be VERY close to what it currently is.

Deliverance war will be VERY close to what it currently is while any use of tank stance get very nice offensive and defensive enhancements.

War will be fine. Not as much fun imo, but not nerfed.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

War will be fine. Not as much fun imo, but not nerfed.

Reddit already did the calculations. These changes result in roughly a 5% decrease in their overall damage.

[OmegaSinX]

blah blah Warrior DPS is weaker in Tankstance because of 10% decrease of Stormeye blah blah.

But you Forget about Unchained. Most people didn't use it because it conflicted with Inner Release. On top of this, its CD was reduced. So now instead of 2 Damage boosters in Defiance, they now have 3: Unchained, Inner Release, Storm's Eye. Also, now that you can IR in Defiance, WAR will see a DPS boost from all the Steel Cyclones/Inner Beast uses.

Your calculation doesnt account for the guaranteed CRIT/DET. Crits have a base 1.45x damage modifier that gets higher with your Critical Hit Rate . Direct Hits have a base 1.25x damage modifier. At 1403, crit modifier is about 1.49x. with those stats Direct Crits have approximately 1.86x modifier which will only get higher as your Critical hit rate goes up.