Just played Final Fantasy XI

[Skivvy]

That was one of the neat things about XI's expansions and storylines. They were mostly standalone and could be taken in on their own merits and you wouldn't be missing much if you didn't complete or even start another. It's interesting to see how the devs here painted themselves into plot corners in gating off content by expansion and had to make clumsy efforts to not exclude new players when the ones for XI did it so right. Got the expansion? Great you can use the jobs that come with it and go to the new zones at your will.

Yess! This is one thing I always appreciated. The amusing side-effect of this is that the NPCs all treated you like a low-life when you started the next expansion since they weren't linked. I'm sure a modern game could find a way to put some checks in, and tweak dialogue depending on your progression with other story lines - but this definitely is not the case in XI.

[ManuelBravo]

I don't think I ever even got into Chains of Promathia content, and yet for some reason I bought each new expansion as it came out. I just couldn't handle the endless waits to find a party or wrap my head around the prerequisites necessary to make myself more appealing for parties to invite me or the leadership aspect of starting my own. Meanwhile in FFXIV I've traipsed my way through each expansion, though I don't much mess with the raid scene.

And yet, I think I enjoyed existing in Vana'diel far more than my entire FFXIV experience. Heck, to be honest, I'm tempted to resume the little NPC party trip I was taking through Vana'diel a year or so ago... if I can just remember my login credentials, PlayOnline is the one part I'm only nostalgic about once I manage to log in. ;p

Promithia gave you access to sea, Zilart gave sky ... my favorite was WotG the best and if you did all 3 paths had decent rewards. Over all all the expansions gave you access to new raid type content. I loved all the stories...except the last one Adoulin -.-... However now you can get rare alter egos from clearing them.

I still play FFXI and loved their story line over all. Nothing beats that old feeling of t he hardships and grinds before FFXIV.

[Thayos]

XIV isn't a bad game by any measure -- but it definitely doesn't have the longevity of FFXI. While XI gave players a world they could live in, XIV is better for appointment gaming.

The folks in my static have been playing since launch. Nowadays, though, we only play once a week, and most of us stopped caring about capping out our iLevels months ago. Several of us have talked about quitting, and we're all (not too optimistically) hoping that Eureka is a breath of fresh air.

This game is ultimately suffering from some of the same problems as Destiny 2 and several other titles. No matter how polished the gameplay is, the developers have done a terrible job at giving people reasons to play. Repacking old content into a new laundry list just doesn't work anymore.

Another area where XI beats the pants off of XIV is that this game offers extremely little content for FCs and linkshells. XIV's entire endgame scene is optimized for statics of eight people. XI, on the other hand, had things like Dynamis, Einherjar, Limbus, Sky, Salvage, etc. where groups of all abilities and sizes could pursue long-term goals without one person ruining it by not having memorized a complex script.

My static mates and I all feel the same way about this: We WANT to love Eorzea. We WANT to spend more time in this beautiful world that's been made for us.

We just don't have any reasons to.

And, as a result, we're starting to pick up/go back to other games like WoW, GW2, Diablo 3 or just single-player titles. I'm pretty sure some of us will quit XIV at the end of the Stormblood cycle unless the development team realizes some big changes are necessary. I haven't made up my mind yet.

[ManuelBravo]

XIV isn't a bad game by any measure -- but it definitely doesn't have the longevity of FFXI. ....

And, as a result, we're starting to pick up/go back to other games like WoW, GW2, Diablo 3 or just single-player titles. I'm pretty sure some of us will quit XIV at the end of the Stormblood cycle unless the development team realizes some big changes are necessary. I haven't made up my mind yet.

I agree with you,I am loyal fan since beta and the only thing really keeping me here is the achievements...I look back and recall spending my vacation time, calling in sick, just to play FFXI. The only time I do it now is for a patch that grabs my attention, such as the incoming one come on Kefka hell yeah, or new expansion. I miss the old hardships and play FFXI while I'm waiting for queue or maintenance. Sadly unlike FFXI the relics here are really held back in terms of updates. Hoping Eureka makes things more interesting. So far the Death penalty seems to be coming back there so should make things interesting. Nothing says put attention to mechanics like a level down. Guess Dissidia NT will have to do as well :P

[Theodric]

My biggest concern at the moment is that WoW is finally starting to pump out content patches at a rate that roughly matches FFXIV's own. I'll put aside my distaste for the fact that it did not do so back when I was actually invested in WoW a few years ago.

FFXIV's content patches, however, offer up content that is mostly irrelevant the moment it is completed. The new, lasting, content is usually delayed by a month after a patch goes live - as is the case with Rival Wings and Eureka.

I so desperately want more content that remains relevant for more than a few weeks or a single patch. POTD hit all the right notes in that regard...and I hope Eureka does as well...but the developers seem very reluctant to truly try out new things.

[Thayos]

FFXIV's content patches, however, offer up content that is mostly irrelevant the moment it is completed. The new, lasting, content is usually delayed by a month after a patch goes live - as is the case with Rival Wings and Eureka.

Yes, that's a huge problem, especially for the vast majority of XIV players who don't care about hardcore savage/ultimate/whatever raiding. My static is solidly midcore, which means we might sometimes tackle current-tier extreme primals, but never the hardest or most current raids. So, for us, there is literally no reason to grind the same dungeons for gear we don't need -- hence why most of us stopped even collecting tomes long ago. We just don't care.

Now, if we had some other form of endgame that could be tackled in a group, similar to how large, dynamic groups would tackle limbus or dynamis? Yes, then we'd have more reasons to gear up or level new jobs -- at least we'd be contributing to the good of the group at endgame. As it stands, though, there's just no reason to care, which means there is no reason to grind mind-numbing easy content.

And when you take away the super easy content, this game doesn't have much meat on its bones.

[Mjollnir]

Took a break from XIV to return to XI a couple of years ago. Now I come back to XIV for patch day, or a week for the xpac, but find it hard to stay. Coming up to 4.2, am trying to get back into XIV with friends so we can play the upcoming endgame challenges, but... it's so dull.

On my PC next to me runs XI - not XI from 2004 or 2009 or 2012, but XI from 2018. It's updated monthly with content. Of course, there's been no budget for new zones or monsters since 2015, but we do get new reward systems, tougher challenges at endgame, more gear which isn't just better stats than the last (aside from upgraded gear) and can be used in the different situations presented. The game is *deep*, and that's not just because it's had 16 years compared to XIV's 8, but because of the base design and the producers' ethic.

XIV started off so well, using newer tech to create a game that XI could never be. It's story was great and it was dangerous. With ARR everything got dumbed down, your hand was held, and DF meant that you could ignore all other players if you chose to for everything except a single series of fights per patch. I accepted that because 1.0 was financial ruin and subscriptions were needed, so if we could be part of a slicker, more beautiful version of everything that was already out there, then fine (and I love XIV's UI to bits).

But then 3.0 came and it was the same again in a different skin. We got a lot of extra fluff, but gear continued to be discarded entirely each patch - a side-effect of a huge lack of character stats and gear being able to influence individual abilities. Patches spread out, and story/quest content in them was reduced to 2hrs play at most every four months (by quest, not meaning relic grind here).

4.0 was the final straw. For those two weeks, it was a fantastic ride. Loved the zones, loved the music, loved the characters, loved the story, loved the trials and the raid. But then... left with repetition. Repetition in the knowledge that it would all go up in flames come 4.1, come 4.2... etc.

I'm not going to lie; knowing I get to fight Byakko, to ride the Phantom Train, excites me a little because it feels like it's going to be fun. But then on week 2 when I have to do it again? Week 3? I'm worried Eureka will be another Palace of the Dead or PvP - a complete achievement system outside your character than lands a new piece of gear that stays relevant for one patch like everything else. And something you have to play so often that it destroys the very will to play it.

So I turn back to FFXI. I've got 22 jobs to choose from - levelling to cap only takes a few days. Gearing up solo via dozens of different types of content, a few weeks. Bringing the job to a group to work on final upgrades, whilst perhaps obtaining extra pieces for that job and others is broad and healthy progression. Helping out the new and returning players that arrive in Vana'diel every day (even on a smaller server like Shiva) is renewing and forging new bonds.

Overall FFXI *was* the best of the two, and then it wasn't. Then FFXIV was the better of the two for a long time, but it slipped a couple of years ago. FFXI has maintained integrity since its (presumably) final form in 2015, whereas FFXIV has stagnated with resources being spent on fixing a housing mess that should never have happened, mini-games requiring whole new systems with lastability measured in hours, dozens of sets of armour which the playerbase wear for a fortnight and then discard forever, (I'm not gonna say PvP...) PvP, and not enough lore, character development, exciting plots or frequent updates.

Sorry for so much rambling. I hope FFXIV gets better again soon. I'll stay subbed to both, as always^^

[Thayos]

Mjo, your post ALMOST makes me want to leave XIV and resub to XI, ha! You make a great point about XIV surpassing XI for awhile, but now perhaps falling behind again.

XIV would probably be a better game for a brand-new player choosing between the two. It's newer, prettier, easier and doesn't require a social group to make great progress.

XIV just makes it way too easy to reach the mountaintop. I played XI religiously for 10+ years and never even came close to the summit. In XIV, you can reach it every patch cycle by grinding different versions of "Baby's First Dungeon." For most people, it's only a matter of time before the repetition becomes nonsensical.

Again, it's kind of the same problem I have with Destiny 2. It was easy hitting the level cap, and all there is to do at endgame are a couple of raids -- so for weeks, I'd just log on and do the requisite challenges to get rare "powerful" gear. In just an hour or two, I'd run a handful of public events and rack up a certain amount of experience, and boom -- logged out until the next week and repeated the process. Came to my senses a few weeks ago and haven't felt the need to log in since. (I'm regretting my decision to pay for the first two expansions upfront.)

This is where I feel like FFXIV is at. Most people don't have any reason to log in more than once per week, if even that. And after awhile, one must do the math -- if I pay $10/month (legacy fee), then is it worth staying subbed for like six hours of game time? I'm paying almost $2 per hour to play! Yeah, it's cheap, but is that logical?

[Mahri]

XIV started off so well, using newer tech to create a game that XI could never be. It's story was great and it was dangerous. With ARR everything got dumbed down, your hand was held

this sentiment, expressed without even the faintest shred of irony or self-awareness, is always truly incredible to see, like a fleeting glimpse of a rare majestic beast in the wilderness.

Treasure it. I am overcome with emotion

...just, probably not the emotion intended.

[AnimaAnimus]

snip

again all I hear is...

"I shouldn't have to git gud or try, everything needs to be made for and cater exclusively to me, me me me me me"