Loot drops in 24 mans

[Metalwrath]

24 man is a lot easier than extreme's and Savage.
it harder the content the better the reward should be.
For 24 man raids require very little skill and other alliances can carry you.It shouldnt stay like it is.The drop rate is fair and rare should be rare for a reason.

[ManuelBravo]

Well there are tokens for Extremes and Savage content, why not for 24 man ? So that you just do 1 run per week and don't have to be bothered doing 30 or 40 runs to get what you want if all you want is a specific piece (mostly to stuff second jobs btw, sorry but not spending more than one hour per week in 24 man just for seconds).

Some say people will only go once a week then : well sure, but it's already what some do and if they don't loot anything they're still not going back before next reset. The carrot isn't working anymore.


Trying to force people to do a precise content (they don't want to do because grew bored of it) because of RNG is old fashioned and I don't walk into that manipulation anymore, and many long time players are starting to avoid that as well. So, might as well put tokens to still have something after 10 runs, so that you still guarantee at least 10 runs will be done by people who want something.

When you know the goal it's easier to motivate people to go into those instances. When you think "heeeeh there's a tiny little chance what I want drops, but it'll most likely get looted by the lol guy of the team, and I might have to spend an hour pulling out my hair on fights people mess up somehow" , well that doesn't help wanting to go in it.

While it may be true it motivates you would think that it would help out the queue. For example light grinning for relics, some raids are done for that just because there are hardly any Alex runs now. Rule is once you find what you need you don't really care unless is daily roulette. Why do you think the tokens for extreme runs are 99 for mounts? to force people to do it. Yes it would be nice, however if people really got it right away it would affect queue. There are some of us who really don't need the gear and just lot it to de-synth or for company seals. Then people bitch and complain " Hey your high level why are you needing it?" Same principle I would have to say it may seem sad that people have bad luck, yet I've yet to see one person asking for anything. If people communicate it would not be that hard to get stuff to begin with. If I really need something I ask and really don't have a hard time getting it. Now I can understand the whole token perspective in raids such as savage, however for normal content not really. -.- It's like asking for a trophy just for trying.

[Wintersandman]

It's like asking for a trophy just for trying.

Your logic is falling apart. I don't see how you love RNG so much as it is a completely antiquated system. Which is also why they are eliminating it with relics and slowly phasing it out of the jobs. Lets take ATMA, Yokai, or Crystals for example. If you told me it was going to take 100 fates to get a token. That is something that is easily obtainable and perceivable. But then lets add RNG on top of that. You form a party to go do it. Half the party gets in in 15 fates, another gets it in 50, and the 2nd and 3rd to last get in 75. The person who is left doesn't get it for 125 fates. Of course they had RNG Bad Luck but it is also demoralizing to that person. It is a lot more tangible to have a set amount guarantee, even if it is 100 xyz runs. People don't want to run content and gamble whether or not they are going to get the item they are looking for. People avoided relics just for that sheer purpose and would rather save up 3 weeks worth of tomes plus 7 weeks worth of raids just to avoid the RNG aspect.

[ManuelBravo]

Your logic is falling apart..

We are talking about raids vs item drops in fates. In terms of raids it's competition for drops against other players. RNG for items drop is something that has been nerfed sooo much do to people complaining it's too hard and hate the grind which I can understand SE has made it it's mission to avoid as much as possible. Unlike FFXI ( where you can actually consider it a grind ) Drop items from fates has really no comparison to actual bidding for items in Raids. Lets talk relics ok, MY example was based on people participating. My goal is to get all relics done, ( currently needing 5 more animas ) If no Alex parties Raids are the next best thing. About 2-3 raids will do one rune. The more things are done the less people are available for raid runs. Now on savage ones, example Deltascape you get books ( tokens ) to exchange for gear. Which makes sense being you need competent players working together. Unlike random groups which most of the time fail.

So lets do a quick breakdown;

Dungeons people complained it was not fair so they implanted getting a piece of equipment based on their job. People bitched about not being fair because high level players would not greed.

Mount tokens were implemented on some extreme version why? people bitched and complain also.

Normal raids Not surprising that people can't handle simple mechanics even after people do friendly reminders. So no adding tokens to that would just allow people to get a trophy for just trying. Now if they did an evaluation system based on performance and got a piece based of their job that would be understandable being most of the time 2 groups usually carry some.

But to get a token just for trying....sure lets give the cupcake / snowflake generation something for just trying.

in conclusion there is a difference in fate grinding / dungeon / raids. Stop avoiding the main point, should people get a choice of gear just for trying? Sure why not people need to feel special in their own way. While we are at it everyone gets a completed relic of their choice shall we? I mean it's not fair people grind for relics and newbies can't share the feeling...( sarcasm)

[Wintersandman]

But to get a token just for trying....sure lets give the cupcake / snowflake generation something for just trying.

You keep thinking RNG gets you something GREAT!. I did all the grinds I stated so I know first hand but I also know people who just flat out gave up. The reason why the relate is it clearly shows how Demotivating and antiquated RNG is. 24 mans it's not even really a competition. People are literally running it for glamour or to gear up a 2nd job or their 9th job. They have already participated and won. There is no "Trophy" as you keep calling it. It is purely just busy work. There is no other definition.

I farmed my relics with the original drop rates, I did Yokai, I did all of these and I take it you did as well. But the difference between us is you have a wall up that there may be a better system.

I could care less personally if they don't eliminate RNG because the gear/glamour means nothing to me. But what does matter is watching friends, FC mates, LS mates, and other players quit playing a game due to an antiquated system.

[ManuelBravo]

I could care less personally if they don't eliminate RNG because the gear/glamour means nothing to me. But what does matter is watching friends, FC mates, LS mates, and other players quit playing a game due to an antiquated system.

Your missing the point, I don't praise the RNG number, what I am saying that there is a certain place for token based items and currently it looks well balanced. They can compensate also by maybe crafting. ( Perish the thought they don't like to craft it would actually take time and effort) If your watching your acquaintances drop the game for just not getting things when they want them and not putting the effort in it does not sound like a problem. Sounds like pity. Sure SE could make it easier and please all those people and make it easier for them, or they could monopolize and sell tokens to trade at trough cash shop. I mean they could cheat with cash shop, so far jump potions help people catch up, however does not remove the fact that experience which is normally acquired is dismissed. That is the whole point yes it sucks to see people despair, but that is life. Kind of making LIMITED Edition things available. It's a slap in the face for those actually put the effort or time to accomplish things.

[Wintersandman]

Kind of making LIMITED Edition things available. It's a slap in the face for those actually put the effort or time to accomplish things.

I am not missing the point. You are making it sound like getting a set from a 24 man is an accomplishment. It is really just luck, that is it. People with tank Mounts, had the fishing title in ARR, etc those are all accomplishments. Clearing Savage and Ultimate having BiS is an accomplishment. Doing a 24 man and hoping your item drops is not an accomplishment. RNGesus was on your side and that is it. YAY RNGesus praised me today. If you can't see how idiotic that is for 24 man content than well I feel sorry for you. I can guarantee you people clearing ultimate and savage are spending way more time than the people trying to get xyz item from a 24 man.

No one is going to look at someone in a set from 24 man and go "Congratulations! I have been trying to do that for so long".

[ManuelBravo]

. If you can't see how idiotic that is for 24 man content than well I feel sorry for you. I can guarantee you people clearing ultimate and savage are spending way more time than the people trying to get xyz item from a 24 man.

No one is going to look at someone in a set from 24 man and go "Congratulations! I have been trying to do that for so long".

The only idiotic thing that I have seen so for in 24 man raids recently is the fact that people still can't follow simple mechanics and still wipe on old content. If it's not such a big a deal why not go do savage for better gear or tomes? Then they can really have a reason to rage quit. It does not take a genius to follow simple mechanics or to take advice. If people can't move on or use better gear then apparently they only want it for glamour and it really should not matter. Perhaps asking the party if they can have it?

IF asking is still too much allow me to play the worlds smallest violin.

[Wintersandman]

Perhaps asking the party if they can have it?

IF asking is still too much allow me to play the worlds smallest violin.

If you read the OP it isn't a lot issue it is a drop issue. That means two layers of RNG to get the item. First layer is getting the item to drop initially which is what the OP was complaining about if you took the time to read. Next is a lot issue which no one is debating or even discussing. So you can take your smallest violin if you can read because obviously you haven't.

Also, you are comparing savage content vs casual content. Everything that is considered "End Game" has a token system why doesn't casual content.

[ManuelBravo]

...
Also, you are comparing savage content vs casual content. Everything that is considered "End Game" has a token system why doesn't casual content.

Because Savage is harder to do, guess what they need to learn mechanics, and people deserve to be rewarded. Unlike normal content that has been nerfed so much that people still complain and still fail.