What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[SilentVoice]

will i get a slap from you guys when i sometimes forget to use Ruin II if i have to run around due to mechanics? Do i get a slap for overhealing group or somebody, because i couldn't expect this pug co-healer to heal at this moment, since previous pull he didn't?
Because i can't really tell at what level your ABC stance is. Shall we go over the fflogs and take into consideration all such things before like you know, deciding whether we should kick this healer out of the group due to not blue+ performance level?

[Jollyy5]

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No, but you might get a slap for trying to blow things out of proportion for no reason.

Healer doing their ABC is the minimum any healer should strive for, you won't get slapped for failing to use Ruin II when you had to move as long as you realize it's a thing you can do, and work towards it.

And even if you never did cast anything while moving, I won't get on your case for it because one could technically consider casting "Move Away From Bad Stuff" being part of ABCs.

Plus, I consider that as "high-level play", which none of us here is trying to enforce.

[era1Ne]

Healer doing their ABC is the minimum any healer should strive for, you won't get slapped for failing to use Ruin II when you had to move as long as you realize it's a thing you can do, and work towards it.

Literally doing ABC is one of the hardest task to pull of and not the minimum. I don't have a number of course, but from talking to others and my experience probably 95% of the community can't do ABC properly.

• The loose casts during mechanics, when stuff goes wrong and they panic
• they loose casts, because they can't position themselves probably.
• The loose casts, because they play a mechanic save (for instance v1 classic element. You need to move once, not twice, once, if you do it right).
• They loose casts, because they don't slidecast.
• They loose casts, because they think about what to do next
• They loose GCD, because they don't use swiftcast or instant dots for example, while walking

Just to give you a few examples. It is really not easy, just like having very high uptime at the boss as melee is not easy. Many people can't do it and imo you can not expect people to be able to do it. Should they try or strive for it? I would like it, if they do, but in the end it is not as easy as people think it is. What we as community CAN expect people to do is trying their best and for healers that means casting a few dmg spells, when they don't have to heal.

But literally ABC is something most people can not do and to be honest this is one of the reason, i defend newer healers. No, not the "I want only to heal!!" healers, but the inexperienced healers that have to deal with demands like ABC and for obvious reasons can not do it. At least you don't enforce it, but there are really people in this community that demand this from every healer or say this would be easy.

. And even if you never did cast anything while moving, I won't get on your case for it because one could technically consider casting "Move Away From Bad Stuff" being part of ABCs.

Let me be harsh for a moment. If the healer is not casting while doing a mechanic, he is not ALWAYS casting and therefore not doing ABC. I thought it was the mininum?

[Jollyy5]

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Not sure why you would nitpick like this even if I'm pretty sure (or at least hope) you know what I meant.

But if you really need me to clear it up for you, I said "ABC is the minimum any healer should STRIVE for", as in attempt to maximize your uptime, as in TRY to improve INSTEAD of sitting there doing nothing while you don't have to heal, move or do mechanics.

Explain to me which part of us asking people to do something instead of nothing when there is absolutely nothing else to do but to DPS do you not understand?

[era1Ne]

Explain to me which part of us asking people to do something instead of nothing when there is absolutely nothing else to do but to DPS do you not understand?

Saying healers should do something is totally different than setting the bar very high with your sentence that "ABC is the minimum healers should strive for". Most healers in this game - and we are probably talking about over 95% of the healers - are not doing ABC and therefore are doing nothing for a few seconds during a fight. You just used the term ABC wrongly, because it doesn't mean (A)lways (d)o (s)omething, it literally means always be casting and i really cannot agree in the slightest that ABC is the minimum. But i know what you meant and i agree that trying your best, in this case trying to do dmg, while nothing is happening is something we can ask for or in your words is the minimum.

[Jollyy5]

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Alright, fair enough.

But we can both agree that healers should try to spend their time efficiently, trying to do something beneficial instead of standing around doing nothing or overhealing, right?

[era1Ne]

Alright, fair enough.

But we can both agree that healers should try to spend their time efficiently, trying to do something beneficial instead of standing around doing nothing or overhealing, right?

Absolutely. At the end you get different results depending on the skill of the healer, but yes i absolutely agree, everyone should try to do something beneficial, since this is a team game.

[Sebazy]

will i get a slap from you guys when i sometimes forget to use Ruin II if i have to run around due to mechanics? Do i get a slap for overhealing group or somebody, because i couldn't expect this pug co-healer to heal at this moment, since previous pull he didn't?

I'm in Angered, I rarely remember to ruin II whilst moving on the occasions I actually play SCH these days. I don't get slapped about it. Why would you? Let's keep this grounded in reality please?

Jolly should have probably been a little clearer but his thinking is sound.

There is nothing wrong with overhealing if it is removing a significant enough element of risk from the situation at hand. It might not be optimal but assuming you're not just throwing Medica IIs at full HP bars, it's still better than standing there doing nothing. Rather, you'd be more likely to get a slap if someone died whilst you were stood there picking your nose at the time no?

ABC is something to be aimed for, not expected (Outside of legitimate speedkill attempts and world/server first progression pushes perhaps).

The only thing I said is that that game doesn't especially encourage (not allow, encourage) healer doing DPS and that a different healing design that didn't rely on mana vs potency but more ressource building into burst heal could encourage healer DPS better. And then someone tell me "yeah, but mana starvation was worse in ARR". Okay. Good. Thanks for the info. But what does that changes exactly ? The idea is still the same.

You're a little hard to follow here =(

I think you're saying that we've gotten more burst healing abilities over the last two expansions which has opened up more opportunities for healer DPS?

If so I'd 100% agree with that, to expand and explain for people that might not have raided in BCOB etc.

In early ARR, MP was the most valuable resource a healer had (Even if you had multiple bards in BCOB, ballad was a raid DPS loss). Back then oGCD options were much more limited (WHM only had lolBene and Lustrate was very tank-centric) so time wasn't a resource we could really do much with beyond using the GCDs we had as efficiently and effectively as we could.

Roll forward to today and it's kind of turned on it's head, time aka our GCDs are the big resource now. We've got multiple sources of self sustain whilst group sustain is part of a raid group's natural rotation, both of which have significantly devalued the worth of MP. Rather, a stronger suite of oGCDs across all 3 healers to push bigger chunks of burst HPS to free up time to do other stuff (Aka DPS as the game stands now). Ironically, all 3 healers tend to be as MP efficient if not more so when burst healing on single targets providing they've got the oGCDs on hand to do so.

Compare an AST that aims to land a Benefic II plus Essential Dignity combo on their tank at 20-30% HP vs one that just churns away keeping them topped with Benefic 1.

The first is the SB way of thinking, the second is the ARR way of thinking.

[Tridus]

will i get a slap from you guys when i sometimes forget to use Ruin II if i have to run around due to mechanics? Do i get a slap for overhealing group or somebody, because i couldn't expect this pug co-healer to heal at this moment, since previous pull he didn't?
Because i can't really tell at what level your ABC stance is. Shall we go over the fflogs and take into consideration all such things before like you know, deciding whether we should kick this healer out of the group due to not blue+ performance level?

No, of course not. That's silly. Nobody is demanding theoretical perfect performance. Ever.

It's about effort. Are you trying? You're fine. Are you arguing that you should be able to stand around doing nothing for 20 seconds because it's not your job to do something during that time? That's an issue.

[M0rty]

I have a huge fear of screwing up and wiping the party so I mostly go BioII+Miasma+Bane then dropping the heals with some Esunas if someone has a debuff or proc.