SE: if it aint broke, dont fix it (War)

[RamzaRuglia]

I actually cannot reproduce your deliverance number. Mine is far lower despite having higher HP. My no crit no direct hit average is closer to 4000 than 5000.

With some more numbers the average right now is closer to 4,530, but getting over 5k with no crit, no direct hit more often than not.

[Chrono_Rising]

Are you using any additional modifiers? Food Slashing ect?

[RamzaRuglia]

Are you using any additional modifiers? Food Slashing ect?

Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Eye > Upheaval for the fastest test against a Lv70 Striking Dummy.

[Chrono_Rising]

Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Eye > Upheaval for the fastest test against a Lv70 Striking Dummy.

I see, I used butchers block to avoid slashing debuff and to prevent myself from accumulating too much gauge to start critting. I didn't want to add in other variables. So this still leaves me with the question of why defiance seems to raise upheaval by so much (well over 25% and closer to 50%) when thrill of battle does not produce such results in deliverance.

[Kabooa]

So this still leaves me with the question of why defiance seems to raise upheaval by so much (well over 25% and closer to 50%) when thrill of battle does not produce such results in deliverance.

No idea, but apparently it's also not 'ignoring Defiance' as Unchained gives it the expected damage increase that other skills enjoy. The highest unchained Upheaval I managed at the time of testing (This was admittedly a couple months ago) was something like 12kish noncrit with Berserk, Thrill, Defiance, and Unchained running.

My best guess is that Upheaval is coded differently from Inner Beast, and the damage formula looks more like:

DamageMultiplier = 1 * (Health Bonus) * (StanceBonus) * (Unchained)

Where Health bonus = Total Health / BaseMaxHealth, StanceBonus is If-Deliverance = 1.0, If-Defiance = 1.25 (25% more to put the 80% penalty at 100%), and Unchained If-Active = 1.25, If-Not-Active = 1.0

Where Inner Beast is

DamageMultiplier = 1

And other skills are

Damage Multiplier = 1 * (Unchained)

So Upheaval, putting it through Defiance is

Health bonus = 1.25 (125% health / 100% base max health)
Stance bonus = 1.25

1.25 * 1.25 = 1.56 multiplier just for being in Defiance compared to 1.05 for being in Deliverance. an almost 50% increase by comparison. And because every other bonus (Berserk, Crit, Direct Hits) are also multiplicative, a DCrit Defiance Upheaval is going to be monstrous.

[RLofOBFL]

I hit a 23K DhC defiance thrill unchained berserk slashing eye Upheaval.

[shao32]

I hit a 23K DhC defiance thrill unchained berserk slashing eye Upheaval.

23k? so this is the new fell cleave?, it will be fun if the new meta involved defiance on

[Ekimmak]

23k? so this is the new fell cleave?, it will be fun if the new meta involved defiance on

Not while Unchained's cooldown is hooked to Inner Releases.

The what started this discussion was talking about how Unchained would become worth swapping into Defiance for, from a DPS standpoint, and that removing the cooldown link isn't QoL, it's a buff.

[shao32]

Not while Unchained's cooldown is hooked to Inner Releases.

The what started this discussion was talking about how Unchained would become worth swapping into Defiance for, from a DPS standpoint, and that removing the cooldown link isn't QoL, it's a buff.

i know i know, im just surprise how upheaval can get such numbers, i know how can easily war can become OP again if they do that, they are actually the ones how pay less on dps for the swaps, unchained will be pretty huge.

for one side if they release unchained it will make defiance more playable and inner beast being a option again, will make WAR a true stance dance tank, but on the other hand they will need at minimun eliminate grit and shield damage penalty or make somehow avoid they damage penalty temporaly too to match this change, and i dont see SE doing that with how they "love" PLD and DRK

anyway in 2 days we will know, and i hope SE dont make WAR so powerfull with those "changes"

[Chrono_Rising]

Not while Unchained's cooldown is hooked to Inner Releases.

The what started this discussion was talking about how Unchained would become worth swapping into Defiance for, from a DPS standpoint, and that removing the cooldown link isn't QoL, it's a buff.

Exactly, of course very important to keep in mind this is a very hypothetical conversation as well.