Really SE 40+ kills and no drop?

[Lucifer]

Let's see here...
From a business perspective, a time sink would enable people to play this games for many months, thus increasing revenue.
From a players perspective, we have a sense of accomplishment, something that took us months to accomplish. Why else would we be paying a monthly fee on top of the initial cost of the game?
I am not surprised you have absolutely no excuse as to why you aren't playing another genre.

Anyway I don't think of them as just time sinks. I think of things like grinding as progression. You put in the time, you reap the rewards. Grinding isn't the only way of implementing progression however. There are many things SE can do and HAS done to avert this feeling.

[Molly_Millions]

Let rare drops be rare, I like the drop rate on these chests. It adds excitement when I try to double meld the sentinel's stuff.

[Elexia]

Just about every MMO I've been playing people have been complaining about blowing through content and only having PvP left to do while waiting for new content.

Timesinks aren't bad, it's just people with no time to dedicate to MMOs complain about them, like "I only have 30 minutes - 5 hours a week to play I should have content for me", this is why we're able to blow through all content and have nothing to do but spam Rifts and PvP.

It's a complaint in almost all MMOs, because 9/10 if you've been playing long enough all you have left is PvP because you can do everything and obtain everything in short order then you have to sit and wait for more content that'll be completed in the matter of hours as well as loot pool depletion since apparently "timesinks" are a bad thing.

Timesinks are what gets you money if you don't utilize a cashshop. The longer you can keep players playing the more money you get over time, everyone wins, you also can't say "but if they make the content fun.." that would work if MMO players as of late didn't prove they don't care for fun, because "Just for fun content" will need rewards to be "worth doing."

[Ilean]

I guess there is just no golden mean here, probably because our brains are wired completely different.

I've heard it all from the time-sinkers, I've been called a casual when I was beating Ninja Gaiden on the NES before most of them were born and still play as hard as RL allows it. I've been accused of wanting everything handed to me by lolteenagers, LOL, try that again once you have a full time job, are married with children and paying a mortgage.

I'm sure it's only about time until most MMO companies shift their revenue models away from entrapping people into doing the same thing over and over again so they feel the game is worth paying lol13 bucks a month, to actually providing thrilling and memorable content that doesn't need to make up for its shallowness with artificially inflated gameplay.

Anyway, I think I made my point in a previous post, you guys still haven't, "Because I feel more accomplished" isn't a valid point, some people feel accomplished when they self mutilate themselves.

So far it seems your only valid reason to demand timesink design is that you have way too much free time. Since people who don't need to work or who can live on a half time job are a minority, shouldn't SE be designing FFXIV's content with balanced human beings in mind?

[Elexia]

shouldn't SE be designing FFXIV's content with balanced human beings in mind?

Yep, however the extremely casual base are being extremely loud when it comes to MMOs these days, which is exactly why MMOs as of late can be plowed through and people are stuck with nothing but PvP to fill the gaps.

You can't strike a balance when one side is demanding content be one way and any other way is deemed "archaic" or "stupid to do in 2011." See the problem? You can't get that balance when one side of the equation feels the another option "shouldn't be done because it's 2011."

So far it seems your only valid reason to demand timesink design is that you have way too much free time.

The problem with this is it's not "because you have too much free time", it's because logic dictates that if you design content for people with no time to dedicate to your MMO, those who simply MAY have enough time to dedicate to it will be the first ones out the door of your MMO when they complete everything in one or two sittings.

So if they're supposed to design the game to meet middleground, one side has to accept the other or the middleground can never be met, simply because anything done in the past is immediately dismissed.

[Answa]

Yep, however the extremely casual base are being extremely loud when it comes to MMOs these days, which is exactly why MMOs as of late can be plowed through and people are stuck with nothing but PvP to fill the gaps.

You can't strike a balance when one side is demanding content be one way and any other way is deemed "archaic" or "stupid to do in 2011." See the problem? You can't get that balance when one side of the equation feels the another option "shouldn't be done because it's 2011."

The problem with this is it's not "because you have too much free time", it's because logic dictates that if you design content for people with no time to dedicate to your MMO, those who simply MAY have enough time to dedicate to it will be the first ones out the door of your MMO when they complete everything in one or two sittings.

So if they're supposed to design the game to meet middleground, one side has to accept the other or the middleground can never be met, simply because anything done in the past is immediately dismissed.

A thousand times this.

[Ilean]

So if they're supposed to design the game to meet middleground, one side has to accept the other or the middleground can never be met, simply because anything done in the past is immediately dismissed.

The way I see it it's one side demanding fun content, along with rewards that don't require that "your life suffer as a consequence" to obtain them.

The other side is asking that they lock as many people out as possible from said rewards, so they can feel special.


The only middle ground I can see is having no-life mode servers, DIFFICULTY STAYS THE SAME but drop rates are ifrit weapon low. That way hard-core* players can feel they are much better than regular players just because they spent 10x more time doing the exact same thing.

*There are no hard-core MMO players, they are only free-time-core.

[Bearforce]

i wouldnt mind paying for a game that i enjoy to play but when thinking about getting a weapon that hugely relies on a silly RNG. it really broaden the frustration about getting said item.i know timesinks there for a the sole reason is to play for years but it doesnt justify the issue. like pyree said adding timesinks in the game does not mean its a good thing.

anyone remembers how the endgame dynamis scene was like? people farming for dynamis for the rare of bills upgrading relics and getting AF2 for years that take the fun away from you. people often told me that selling those gils in RMT is alot more rewarding then upgrading relic,s.