"The Consequences of Reducing the Skill Gap" (A Video Relevant to the 4.0 Changes)

[Nedkel]

The less mechanics and game skill is needed in the game, the more skill it is needed to overcome someone.

If you both playing on the same rules and know each other moves, its becoming a real challenge to fight against him and more skill to overpower him.
Since you cant use a cheesy moves against him, because you both know all the stuff you could do, so micromanaging and manual skills starts to be more important than knowledge.
The better player will still win the match, but not as easly as before, isnt it a good way to go on pvp design?
Lowering the skill ceilling is increasing the challenge, you cant win as easly as before against everyone. So i believe you people dont like it, because its not as easy to win the game as before, am i correct? :P
The pvp may had more buttons to press, but that doesnt mean it was any harder to execute combos and burst damage than in PVE. So the team with lesser knowledge about their abilities was losing.
btw
I actually enjoy that my PLD is a little different in PVP than it is on PVE, whenever i am off of playing pve i jump to pvp and enjoy the game like a brand new.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The less mechanics and game skill is needed in the game, the more skill it is needed to overcome someone.

Um. . . what?

If you both playing on the same rules and know each other moves, its becoming a real challenge to fight against him and more skill to overpower him.

This was entirely possible even before 4.0 changes.

Since you cant use a cheesy moves against him, because you both know all the stuff you could do, so micromanaging and manual skills starts to be more important than knowledge.

If it was in your kit and usable in PvP, there were no "cheesy" moves. However understanding what your opponent can/can't do counts as being knowledgeable. All the micromanaging you can do doesn't make up for not knowing what to do or how to do it.

The better player will still win the match, but not as easly as before, isnt it a good way to go on pvp design?

9 times out of 10, the better player will still win, and perhaps still with ease. But when kits have been horribly imbalanced from what they were before, or perhaps skills that could be used to burst down an enemy aren't even available, or hell, even when a job like MCH can attain a Battle High just pressing one button, then no, that's not good PvP design.

Lowering the skill ceilling is increasing the challenge, you cant win as easly as before against everyone. So i believe you people dont like it, because its not as easy to win the game as before, am i correct? :P

I'm sorry, but no. When your opponent largely still doesn't know what to do, there is no challenge. When a player can blindly spam skills and perhaps get good results, then there's no challenge or necessity to learn or improve. And we don't like it because it's not as easy to win (it's arguably easier now with all the players that don't know, don't want to know, don't NEED to know, and don't care anyways), we don't like it because it was a huge step in the wrong direction, especially after seeing that it was entirely possible for new people to pick it up and learn to play and play well back in 3.5. It would be like having 4.1 SMN go back to being 4.0 SMN.

The pvp may had more buttons to press, but that doesnt mean it was any harder to execute combos and burst damage than in PVE. So the team with lesser knowledge about their abilities was losing.
btw

This supports our statements regarding how 3.x was better. Yes, it IS generally easier to execute burst damage in PvP, and the combos being consolidated to one button is easier (for melees anyways). But not every job needed that change. And yes, as it should be, the team with less knowledge of their kit/abilities would be less likely to win. Unfortunately, imbalances in the 4.0 system don't require or encourage a player to be good, especially not when healing generally eclipses damage, and CC skills are so short they don't have much impact at all.

[AriaFairchild]

The less mechanics and game skill is needed in the game, the more skill it is needed to overcome someone.

If you both playing on the same rules and know each other moves, its becoming a real challenge to fight against him and more skill to overpower him.
Since you cant use a cheesy moves against him, because you both know all the stuff you could do, so micromanaging and manual skills starts to be more important than knowledge.
The better player will still win the match, but not as easly as before, isnt it a good way to go on pvp design?
Lowering the skill ceilling is increasing the challenge, you cant win as easly as before against everyone. So i believe you people dont like it, because its not as easy to win the game as before, am i correct? :P
The pvp may had more buttons to press, but that doesnt mean it was any harder to execute combos and burst damage than in PVE. So the team with lesser knowledge about their abilities was losing.
btw
I actually enjoy that my PLD is a little different in PVP than it is on PVE, whenever i am off of playing pve i jump to pvp and enjoy the game like a brand new.

This post is so wrong on many levels.
Pre-4.x, the wide variety of skills for each job (including the PvP-only skills) allowed each job to be able to adapt to a variety of situations, and thus was pretty balanced (in their respective role, of course), tho of course some can do certain things better. For example, DRK, considered the underdog of tanks in 3.x, was pretty good in what it can do (tho required much more work to pull the same level of effectiveness as PLD or WAR) - a well-timed Carnal Chill can save souls, and well-placed Tarpit/Unleash can stop dead a retreat in Frontlines.
This situation changed in 4.x. With the reduction to 9 skills, and with devs' inability to conceive what is good for each job, it has created a situation when one kit is far superior to others of the same role. Take a look at NIN's kit: it has almost every CC, has insane mobility...with stealth 2.0 (can run in normal speed, and if you sprint before stealth kicks in, you get to keep the sprint too). Now look at MNK's kit: it's a pile of hot garbage, with almost zero sustain, zero disengage - a job for the most masochistic (sadistic?) of players who love to hear the death groan of their character.
When every job has a kit that can fare well against each other, then we can talk about skill. Lowering the skill ceiling? Yea, it's so low that there's only so much you can do with it...it's like you have the ability to go to PhD yet your government says that the highest level of education is 5th grade.

[Etrius]

I'm kinda late for the party since i took a break for a few days...

Lets try to remember that 4.X PvP "balancing" is done through Feast. Large scale battles are just broken without limiting the amount of roles per party. ("The Fold" 4-Healer party flashbacks)

The better player will still win the match, but not as easly as before, isnt it a good way to go on pvp design?

With the focus back on the Feast, your statement is wrong.
The best Healer could always win the match, followed by DPs and then Tanks in terms of responsibility.
It is a flawed design, you can have awesome Tanks and DPS, but the Healer alone can easily drag everyone down.

And by that design, people are still afraid of healing in the Feast or are criticized for being "bad" healers... which is again, bad for queues.

[Wintersandman]

I actually enjoy that my PLD is a little different in PVP than it is on PVE, whenever i am off of playing pve i jump to pvp and enjoy the game like a brand new.

In 2.x-3.x PLD played very differently in PvP than it did in PvE. Push Back...... anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ08erBoJnU

Should watch this for your enjoyment. Should actually watch all of his 3.x videos and then lets discuss how this 4.x system is so much better.