/Accuse @ the devs: have you set us up to fail...?

[Guulu]

- Learn the boss's patterns.
- Use Stone, Sky, Sea to check your dps.

People have to understand that current SSS dummy is NOT enough for meeting a dps check in real fights. Here's some reason I can come up with atm:

1. You lose GCD when you are solely doing mechanics. Missing 1 GCD for let's say 25 mechanics for a 10 minutes fight, That is around 10% dps loss which lead you from 4k to 3.6k dps (let's be real if your not pressing GCD you won't be pressing oGCD either so this is fairly true). Not to mention there are so much more mechanics in a fight. Uptime is the basic of getting good dps but doing SSS dummy doesn't teach you that.

2. SSS dummy is not tuned good enough. For example for O4S dummy, NIN one requires almost same dps as MNK's, while in fact NIN are 100 to 300 behind MNK depends on how bad the fight is for MNK. Same thing goes to MCH's and SMN's. Their required dps are much lower than it should be because both class received several buffs. AND this still happens on Shinryu EX's dummy where NIN is on par with MNK and SMN/MCH are still undertuned heavily.

3. Fights aren't even gated behind SSS. Plus the players know they're lacking and do the dummy are usually not the problem in the party. At least won't be for long because they are likely to improve shortly.

4. SSS dummy fight is too short where RNG is heavily involved and there are specific rotations to clear it easier but won't benefit you in the real fight.

But I think SSS might do just fine if it is well tuned and requires you to dodge mechanics.

Edit: post limit

[Lelila38]

Part of the issue, too, is the vocal group of players that claw about for harder and harder content despite it blocking off the casual playerbase. But we can't think of the casuals as the one's who just spam 2 or 3 skills without a care. That's not the average player. And anyone into FFXIV enough to use the forum isn't a "casual" player either. We need to keep that in mind.

Did you not read what we've been repeatedly saying in this thread? Noone is asking to "block off" the casuals. We're asking for difficulty to gradually increase as we level up, thus slowly leading us up to endgame level, as in expert dungeons. ex trials and savage should remain optional, but people should generally be closer to being ready for that kind of stuff, when they hit max lvl. We're asking for bosses to do mechanics that actually matter and you have to execute instead of ignoring them.
I feel there should be a general order of things that lead you into savage raids if you wish to do it. Leveling dungeons < max lvl dungeons (end of mandatory stuff) < story mode 8 man raid < 24 man < ex trials < savage. But since they opened all the restrictions on them, basically everyone can just jump into high end content, without being ready for it, which leads to frustration on both sides, the player not ready failing and/or getting kicked and the players who are actually ready getting the feeling the playerbase got worse, when they actually just were poorly prepared for the content they attempted.

[RiyahArp]

All that would do is just make endgame even more barren than it is now. Savage isn't fun for the playerbase, when will people get this through their heads? trying to funnel people into it by making the game harder is helping no one; it just means instead of not doing endgame, people wont bother to reach it. Ugh, farming ex trials is tedious and boring, you want to make expert a similar pain?

[Oscura]

Ugh, farming ex trials is tedious and boring, you want to make expert a similar pain?

Expert is already boring, so they're already similar.

[RiyahArp]

Expert is already boring, so they're already similar.

I don't have to spend ages in party finder hoping that one person doesn't wipe the group, and we disband. I'm not restricted to playing only one job because my ilvl is too low on the others, and I can't practice it (because expert is the only real place to practice a 70 job in a decent settin, short of story raids, and we all know thats next on the chopping block). EX trials are tedious jokes, and many people just wait to overgear them if they do them. No one will do that for hard expert, theyd just make pvp the number one activity to get tomes.

[Oscura]

I don't have to spend ages in party finder hoping that one person doesn't wipe the group, and we disband. I'm not restricted to playing only one job because my ilvl is too low on the others, and I can't practice it (because expert is the only real place to practice a 70 job in a decent settin, short of story raids, and we all know thats next on the chopping block). EX trials are tedious jokes, and many people just wait to overgear them if they do them. No one will do that for hard expert, theyd just make pvp the number one activity to get tomes.

I was simply making a joke that expert is already boring as it is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Lelila38]

All that would do is just make endgame even more barren than it is now. Savage isn't fun for the playerbase, when will people get this through their heads? trying to funnel people into it by making the game harder is helping no one; it just means instead of not doing endgame, people wont bother to reach it. Ugh, farming ex trials is tedious and boring, you want to make expert a similar pain?

We're not trying to funnel people into it, it's entirely optional. And saying it's boring is a generalisation, for me it's the most fun thing to do and I know a lot of others who think the same. To me, Pvp is the most boring thing, but I don't tell people who like it to remove it just cause I'm not enjoying it, to each their own

Again NOONE IS ASKING FOR PERFECTION, just a general knowledge of your class and the willingness to improve and contribute would be appreciated.

[RiyahArp]

People already have this enough to complete virtually all casual content without a problem. The only complaints tend to be from ex primal and savage farm parties. No one is saying "darn, I can't finish drowned city because people don't know their class." Casual content is fine, so why all the fuss about parsing and making it harder so people to learn their class? It's all about savage and ex stuff at heart; the raiders want stuff harder overall and they want more people doing it, because they have much worse experiences with others in it than casuals do with others in casual content.

it gets old honestly.

[Lelila38]

snip

It's not about that, well a bit maybe, but not solely. I agree we don't need parsers for anything below ex primals, even if I'd still like to have some feedback on my performance early on, as I'm always trying to be as good as I can possibly be.

It's about people getting to max lvl and having no clue how their class actually works. Cause there are no mechanics early on that require them to use their skillset effectively. The content is so easy the others just carry them through and they never realise they're not even performing to minimal standards.
That's how you end up in expert dungeon with the no-CD-tank or the no-song-Brd or the infamous ice mage.

[Gleipni]

People already have this enough to complete virtually all casual content without a problem. The only complaints tend to be from ex primal and savage farm parties. No one is saying "darn, I can't finish drowned city because people don't know their class." Casual content is fine, so why all the fuss about parsing and making it harder so people to learn their class? It's all about savage and ex stuff at heart; the raiders want stuff harder overall and they want more people doing it, because they have much worse experiences with others in it than casuals do with others in casual content.

it gets old honestly.

The exact problem of too much casual content,is that people don't get sharp,and when they arrive in savage,its WOUBALADIWOOP time.
And then they cry that people don't accept their performance,their performance that are "enough" in casual content,but,by magic,is not enough in raid.
The main point,that everyone is saying,is that by setting too easy content all the way to lvl 70 with NO way to know if you're good or not,you end up 70,with a class you are far to master,and people exclude you because of poor performance.

I know that FF is a game,you're here for fun etc...BUT,never forget there is 7 other personn with you,and just because you don't give a flying fuck mean you will ruin the fun of the other,Even if its a game,Savage require lot of concentration and commitment, and THAT,will never change,or you're ready to sacrifice your time ti improve yourself to get ready for it,or step out of it .