[spoiler] empire might vs eorzea might

[Cilia]

The Eorzean Alliance is very similar to World of Warcraft's Horde, unfortunately. Despite it not making much sense to undergo numerous conflicts in a short period of time they both somehow manage to pump out enough troops and resources to go head to head with whatever new threat happens to pop up.

This is a common feature of MMOs. Since it's not the real world, they can throw however many NPCs at however many big battles they want and it doesn't matter. At the Dark Portal to Outland, for instance, there is an eternal battle being waged between Horde / Alliance troops and demons from the Legion. The populations and trained soldiers of the factions largely does not matter - they will always have the manpower and materials for wars because troops and resources can be created out of thin air (you can literally mine / gather infinite resources in-game - how realistic is that?). Because it's a fantasy game. Same applies here; we just don't see most of those troops due to rendering limitations. The last big unified battle the Eorzean Alliance engaged in together was Operation Archon (or perhaps the Steps of Faith); while the time passed between then and the war during Stormblood is ambiguous, I don't think it's possible to argue that it's so insignificant as to disallow the training of more troops.

Since you're going to make the comparison, though, I'd just like to say that I disagree that the Eorzean Alliance is like the Horde.

If anything, the Eorzean Alliance is like the Alliance pre-Wrath of the Lich King, albeit with more involved leaders. A critical feature of the Horde was that it had a strong, central leader (the Warchief) even in the early days of the game; it wasn't until 3.0 that the Alliance got its analogous High King. Until then it was just a loose collection of city-states militarily unified but politically divided except during wartime. The Eorzean Alliance is much the same - they band together when a common threat presents itself, but otherwise are left to their own politics.

Garlemald, on the other hand, takes cues from the post-Wrath Horde with its aggression and such, just with better technology. They've had a central leader for a long while, but have much better technology than other nations and have a burning hunger for conquest. Without Thrall's steady hand at the wheel, Garrosh set the Horde on the path of conquest, much like how Garlemald has been doing for the past half a century and using largely the same justification excuse (they were pushed around). He even went so far as to say that he wanted the Horde to attain global domination... again, much like Garlemald. (Was also racist against non-orcs, like how the Garleans are racist toward non-Garleans.)

So just to reiterate if the comparison had to be made I'd say that the Eorzean Alliance is like the Alliance pre-3.0, while Garlemald is like Garrosh's Horde with better tech (and thus more success).

Take the juggernauts getting knocked out of the sky, sure it might be a visual spectacle to see a powerful warrior knock one out of the sky however we've never actually seen how capable those machina are and so far it just seems like they aren't even good for what they're supposed to be for. A scene like that would have more impact if we actually witnessed what those ships are capable of.

The main problem with those ships was small numbers (likely due to rendering limitations) and the fact their shots were really slow. The Xaela were recruited specifically to function as anti-air support, a job they accomplished quite well. If you want an idea of what kind of a threat they could be, just imagine how screwed the Eorzeans would have been without Hien and the Xaela's timely arrival to the battle for Ala Mhigo. The Empire's air support was poised to shred them.

[silentwindfr]

The Eorzean Alliance clearly has the means to counter enemy Airships. If it didn't Garlemald would have conquered Eorzea before our WoLs had even started their adventuring life. Just cause we don't specifically know what magic and/or weaponry they use doesn't mean it isn't the case. Hell maybe they use corrupted crystals to screw the Airship's lifters or something. As I said before, if a BLM can cast a spell that can hit a comet in outer space, a lesser casting discipline should be able to at least manage hitting an Airship.

ok this point need to be adressed, first a bit of lore, the empire did try to invade eorzea right after take ala miggho,the trouble is while them fleet did fly over the lake in mor dhona midgarsorm (that was keeping the seal it seems) did attack them helped by his dragon. the whole fleet was destroyed, forcing the empire to a stalemate until replenish his troops and rebuild the fleet. leading to the start of the V1....
the second invasion did happend to the end of the V1, when the empire did send the 14th legion lead by gaius van baelsar to attack eorzea, and when they was forcing the three city states into a loosing battle, because we was loosing the battle. Nael van Darnus (that have gone crazy) did freed bahamut from dalamud and one more time, the empire troops did take a huge blows like the alliance.

and here the twist around this time, the emperor Solus Zos Galvus, did pass away, leading to a time where people did fight over the imperial throne. that why the empire didn't push right after bahamut, because they was too busy to decide who was the new emperor, to the point that the 14th legion didn't receive any support before the start of the ARR part. even this was a small support. most of the 14th legion equipement was outdated (like said by nero when he arrive) and not even composed of the elite, the 14th legion was mostly an army of conscript from the different colonial province of the empire. like we learn throught a few quest talking of soldier from the empire, like the one about the deserter from dalmasca.

is not that the empire didn't have the strenght for take us down, is more two time they was stoped by deus ex machina (sorry but i see it like this). however, i want to point something, yes the different province can begin to rebel, but soo far only 3 legion did loose them leader.... (zeno, gaius and regula) leaving still 11th legion... more than enough for control them empire.

[Belhi]

You have a few details slightly off.

Firstly the reason the Garleans didn't follow up with an invasion directly after the Battle for Silvertear Skies was because it was at that point that the Beast Tribes started summoning Primals. The fact Primals could easily be resummoned and had the ability to temper the Garlean's forces lead to Solis calling off any further invasion until an effective strategy could be developed to counter the Primal Threat.

I wouldn''t call Midgardsormr's intervention deus ex machine. He clearly had a reason to do what he did and I doubt it was out of some sense of desire to protect the Eorzean states independence on principle. Now its true that the newly reformed Eorzean Alliance would likely have had very little to no chance against the Garlean invasion but Midgardsormr was very much a native threat and we know that even the Garleans are pieces in the war between Hydaelyn and Zodiark.

The second incursion, in 1.0, was entirely about the Meteor project, not an actual invasion. Solus had approved of Nael's plan, though clearly not understanding the truth. To the Garleans, the entire activity was designed to turn Eorzea and its primals into a giant smoking crater. Most incursions by the Garleans were either to secure sites of Aether or set up the Transmitter needed to pull down Dalamud. The newly formed Grand Companies and their allies from the Adventurer's Guild were generally successful in destroying and wiping out these incursions. However they were unaware of the actual Garlean plan till it was well under way. Further the Eorzean's plans were complicated by the Beast Tribes actively summoning their Primals forcing the Alliance to deal with two fronts.

While successful in these actions, including killing Nael, the progress of the Meteor Project had already gone too far. In order to try and stop Dalamud the Alliance tried the desperate attempt to summon the power of the Twelve. The 7th Legion however had taken up position under the falling moon intending to stop any interruption. As the ritual to summon the twelve had to take place directly under the falling Moon this meant the Eorzean Alliance had to engage the 7th to allow the ritual to take place. They succeeded but the ritual was not strong enough to contain Bahamut. Gaius did his best to sit the thing out as much as he could get away with while not actually betraying his orders. However the Eorzean Alliance was generally successful in fighting off the 7th. It is just that that success came too late to stop Dalamud falling.

While Gaius didn't neccesarily have the support of Garlemald he did have the full resources in Ala Mhigo at his disposal and had set up a network of Castrum in the chaos after the 7th Calamity. He still had the strength of the 14th Legion and the network of Castrum's as well and also got his hands on the functioning Ultima Weapon. In a protracted war, or if the WoL had failed to take down the Ultima Weapon, the Eorzean Alliance may have lost but its strikes at the Castrums manage to isolate Gaius's stronghold and the Eorzean Alliance managed to take down the 14th's leadership.

If the Eorzean Alliance had no way to counter the Garlean Airpower there is no way that would have worked. Hell, what would have stopped Gaius from parking a few Warships above Ul'dah and bombarding the city? Just cause we don't know the specifics of how the Eorzean Alliance counters the Airships doesn't mean they can't. Do remember Garlean Airships are dependent on Aether to fly.

In the political centre of the Empire, Ala Mhigo and Doma are probably considered minor territories and our actions, the antics of Barbarians. There are plenty of the leadership of Garlemald who don't think Eorzea is worth the trouble and the retaking Ala Mhigo would be questionably worth it beyond making an example. More to the point the empire is huge and the rest of the Garlean military has to police a massive area, even more so now that they are having to deal with revolutionaries cropping up. Remember a great deal of the Empire has only been in Garlean hands for a relatively short period of time. The Garlean Empire is only 50 years old. On top of that it is a political hotbed with political factions wrestling for influence.

Now as I said, against a united Garlean Empire the Eorzean Alliance wouldn't stand a chance. Hell even attempting to invade would likely be an act in futility. We would still be a minor annoyance in the minds of many Garlean politicians and power brokers. Savages at the distant borders, far from civilisation. This has never been a question of strength. However we have tended to fight one legion at a time and often in complicated circumstances. If anything hubris is one of the greatest advantages we have had against the Empire. That doesn't mean however we are helpless against their Magitech and war machines. The defeat of Zenos and the 12th made sense, if for no other reason than its leader was more interested in having a thrilling fight than actually winning.

[Chewy2nd]

The reason why the Empire is losing is their own doing, the ruled with might and power, not through diplomacy, ruling with an iron fist does work, but not forever. The Eorzean-Doman Alliance revealed to the subjugated territories, that freedom was in fact a real prospect, and so now there are numerous uprisings happening throughout the Empire, causing the Empire to surrender Ala Mhigo and Doma to concentrate on their other territories. The Eorzean-Doman Alliance didn't win through force but by being tactical, splitting the Empire's attention on two different sides of the world.

[VargasVermillion]

The empires biggest fault would be their pride. The rule of Ala mhigo for example wouldn't of been so bad if they actually offered any kind of assistance to integrate into their society but the garlean philosophy is built on a pride that originated from the disadvantages they had a long time ago. They had to work hard to get their technological edge with the odds against them so the garlean motto is basically earn your place 'just as we did'. The idea of savagery is born from the atheist mindset the garleans have 'we didn't need gods, only savages need them'.

[Chewy2nd]

The empires biggest fault would be their pride. The rule of Ala mhigo for example wouldn't of been so bad if they actually offered any kind of assistance to integrate into their society but the garlean philosophy is built on a pride that originated from the disadvantages they had a long time ago. They had to work hard to get their technological edge with the odds against them so the garlean motto is basically earn your place 'just as we did'. The idea of savagery is born from the atheist mindset the garleans have 'we didn't need gods, only savages need them'.

Pretty much this, they invaded territories and then built a wall between themselves and the native population, it was doomed to fail when the only way a normal citizen could ever dream of being a Garlean citizen was murdering people for their oppressors. Garlemald could have offered the territories a hand, but they chose to show them a fist.

[VargasVermillion]

Pretty much this, they invaded territories and then built a wall between themselves and the native population, it was doomed to fail when the only way a normal citizen could ever dream of being a Garlean citizen was murdering people for their oppressors. Garlemald could have offered the territories a hand, but they chose to show them a fist.

Interestingly the attitude is also present in non-garleans who do get somewhere from the Aan stage, they consider those who don't try to move up as 'savages' equally to the level that native garleans would see them in the same way.

[Belhi]

When we first took Ala Mhigo I considered the fact that the method of the Garleans might have some psychological logic to it. Beat the will out of a proud population until they are almost broken and used to suffering and oppression and then offer them respite. For someone living in constant misery and with no will left to fight, they will feel a sense of gratitude at succor even if that succor comes from the ones who first broke them. Part of that for me is trying to understand why Gaius accepted such widespread brutality. While he was definitely Garlean through and through and believe in their superiority, he didn't strike me as one who simply relied on a stick and no carrot to pacify his populous.

That said it seems much of the military officers and many of the soldiers hold this attitude and as such it ends up being prevalent in a lot of areas. It has been noted a couple of times that the treatment of Doma and Ala Mhigo, while not unique, wasn't the norm across every corner of the empire. Many conquered states were for the most part allowed to live much as they had before once conquered but simply under Garlean law. I guess in the end it depends on the local governor.

[Theodric]

It likely also depends on whether or not the region in question seeks to rebel and resist. It would also be very interesting to learn more about what, exactly, the intentions of the Ala Mhigans were in regards to their attempt at conquering the rest of Eorzea. If they had succeeded, what would life under their rule be like for those involved?

[Cilia]

It would... be very interesting to learn more about what, exactly, the intentions of the Ala Mhigans were in regards to their attempt at conquering the rest of Eorzea. If they had succeeded, what would life under their rule be like for those involved?

I don't see what it has to do with anything, but King Manfred tried to begin large-scale campaigns to claim territory and spur economic growth in light of trade routes shifting to the high seas, denying Ala Mhigo one of its main sources of income. Gridania caught wind of this and deployed troops to the Velodyna River; the rest is history.

What life would have been like under an Eorzea ruled by Ala Mhigo is both unknown and unknowable. It's kind of a moot point.