Survey: Community Opinions Regarding Parsing/Parsers in Final Fantasy XIV

[Istaru]

See, I'm fine with that during prog. Where it becomes frustrating is in weekly page runs or farm parties, where someone doing only the bare minimum necessitates more effort from everyone else. This is especially true when Savage is fresh and our ilvls low. Think of it this way, if everyone had that mentality, what happens if you cannot meet enrage? This is largely what has contributed to Savage becoming watered down.

Put that 3.5k dps in another group with same damage, will you clear? No! I posted a screenshot somewhere, where a MCH claimed that 3.5k dps is fine, where I was in a run where the dps was around 3.2k to 3.5k and we had 11% enrage, so no doesn't always work that way.

My comment was only what feedback I have seen from casual players.

If you fail at enrage, then the run wasn’t good enough.

Please, do not take it as my opinion. I don’t really disagree with either of you.

[jameseoakes]

Did we make the DPS check? No.

Why? No one knows.

Time to disband the group and hope the next one doesn't suck...

But if a tank or healer isn't doing their job, they'll get kicked.

The hypocrisy is literally disgusting...

Given how long it takes to get tanks and healers for end game content it's not very often I've seen them get kicked

[RichardButte]

If you fail at enrage, then the run wasn’t good enough.

Uh, no.

The RUN wasn't what was holding you back. It could've been literally 1 DPS that was holding you back, but you're never going to know because, although it's fine to judge tanks and healers by their performance and kick them accordingly, DPS are too fragile, right?

I'm a DPS: if I'm playing poorly, I'd rather know about it so I can figure out what I need to fix than be shielded from the information I need to improve...

Given how long it takes to get tanks and healers for end game content it's not very often I've seen them get kicked

Your group moves to the front of the queue when you're in an instance but lose a member for whatever reason.

They absolutely will get kicked if they can't do their job.

[jameseoakes]

Your group moves to the front of the queue when you're in an instance but lose a member for whatever reason.

They absolutely will get kicked if they can't do their job.

You can't refill a pre-made group so this doesn't apply to high level content

[Istaru]

Uh, no.

The RUN wasn't what was holding you back. It could've been literally 1 DPS that was holding you back, but you're never going to know because, although it's fine to judge tanks and healers by their performance and kick them accordingly, DPS are too fragile, right?.

Clarification:

My use of the word “run” is meant to be simply an attempt to clear some content by one (1) or more players.
Garuda EX unsynced with eight (8) people is simply a run.
A weekly page clear in O3S is also a run.
Aurumn Vale Party? You guessed it, also a run.

Any failure for any reason, including OMGUBERBBQWTH craptastic play by one (1) or all of the DPS is a failed run.

Happier now that I specifically called out DPS and only DPS as my sole example of a failed run?

[RichardButte]

You can't refill a pre-made group so this doesn't apply to high level content

Ah, true.

I was referring to DF situations where tanks and heals get kicked if they mess up (sometimes even once...).

Happier now that I specifically called out DPS and only DPS as my sole example of a failed run?

To be fair, you DID say "If you fail at enrage" so that typically implies there's not enough damage going out, which falls upon the DPS not playing well enough.

I don't mean to sound antagonistic, but I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who looks at what tanks and healers have to deal with, with the pressure of their roles, and then the relatively lax nature of what playing a DPS is like, and see how grossly unfair it is.

It's bad enough that most players find tanking and healing less enjoyable than DPS, but on TOP of that, you'll be scrutinized for your performance by players who are far more difficult to scrutinize back, playing classes that most agree are more enjoyable to play.

Is it any wonder queue times are as generally long as they are?

[ChaoticCrimson]

Okay, I've seen quite a few posts about parsers in the brief few months I've been on these forums, but I haven't really commented on any of them before now, to the best of my recollection. But I suppose even now I'm still a bit on the fence, though somewhat leaning toward wanting at least a personal parser. I can see merit in both sides of the argument. On one hand, in an ideal world one could use parsers to help improve their own results while also being able to work with their groups to efficiently uncover weaknesses and work to improve them. But I also recognize that the world isn't perfect, and that knowing people's numbers could lead to harassment.

I suppose I lean more towards the idea of at least a personal parser since I plan resuming my attempts for raid progression shortly, and it'd be nice to have a better way of knowing where I stand in-battle. I'm a PS4 player, so the best way I can really gauge myself is through the SSS dummies. It's helpful, sure, but not ideal. And since I've levelled my SMN and am practicing rotations, I think a parser would be a better way of telling me how I'm doing in multiple situations. I'd have to learn more on how they work, of course, but it would be nice to have something at least.

[Istaru]

To be fair, you DID say "If you fail at enrage" so that typically implies there's not enough damage going out, which falls upon the DPS not playing well enough.

I agree that a failure at enrage is ultimately due to lack of damage going out. But does it necessarily mean it’s the fault of the DPS? If the healers aren’t handling the raidwide damage properly, using shields and etc and the DPS die, is it still their fault? Or if the tanks mess up the tankswaps or don’t use CDs? However, there are times that your statement about poor DPS play is true. I have no ability to quantify that however.

I don't mean to sound antagonistic, but I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who looks at what tanks and healers have to deal with, with the pressure of their roles, and then the relatively lax nature of what playing a DPS is like, and see how grossly unfair it is.

I get the outrage and I’m glad this post was not as hostile, thank you. I have been a healer and support main going back to FFXI and 2003. In XIV, I have been a healer or tank main forever. I get the challenge, I like it. I wouldn’t play those roles if I didn’t.

It's bad enough that most players find tanking and healing less enjoyable than DPS, but on TOP of that, you'll be scrutinized for your performance by players who are far more difficult to scrutinize back, playing classes that most agree are more enjoyable to play.

I’m the opposite, I like healing and tanking more than DPSing at endgame, by like a lot. When I do EX primals with friends, I want to heal or tank. I don’t want to DPS. Most people who tank or heal actually wanted to play those roles. For me, PLD, AST and WHM are my main three (3) jobs. I only get on BRD or RDM when I let someone else have a turn healing or tanking.

Is it any wonder queue times are as generally long as they are?

I think the lack of players wanting to be tanks or healers is from a lack of being looked at as being powerful. That they aren’t the killers of the monsters and evil things, the DPS do that. The DPS even get the LB as their personal toy.

Think of a champion in most fantasy games. Think of all the main characters in Final Fantasy games, I’m going to guess that the healer tending the wounds of the sick is not that image. But that is what people see healers as to a point.

Simply put, tanks and healers just aren’t seen as “sexy”. No, the added visibility doesn’t help their cause, but it has a lot of company.

[Darrcyphfeid]

I threw some answers into the thing. TL;DR in favor of adding a full parser to the game, because having options is never a bad thing.

I would not expect having a parser to decrease the community's overall ineptness, and while toxicity may see an increase in the short-term I would not expect it to persist for long (whether Square suspended people or not). There's at least one video out there of a guy intentionally doing as little to contribute as humanly possible in some WoW thing (I don't play WoW and can't find the video at this moment) and people had become so numb to parsers that they didn't even waste time commenting/acknowledging or booting them. I very much see that happening here too, because that's pretty much human nature.

I think the lack of players wanting to be tanks or healers is from a lack of being looked at as being powerful. That they aren’t the killers of the monsters and evil things, the DPS do that. The DPS even get the LB as their personal toy.

It's worth mentioning stigma and the numbers game, too.

When you start the game, if you want to be a healer, you have a single choice: Conjurer
When you start the game, if you want to be a tank, you have two choices: Gladiator and Marauder
When you start the game, if you want to be a DPS, you have five choices: Pugilist, Lancer, Archer, Thaumaturge and Arcanist
When you hit level 10, you have the choice to become one additional DPS: Rogue
When you hit level 50, you are given for free two lv50 DPS: Samurai and Red Mage
When you reach Ishgard, at level 51+, you are given three level 30 jobs: Dark Knight (Tank #3), Astrologian (Healer #2/3) and Machinist (DPS #9)

And then, stigma: "Tanks are the leaders of the party" and "Healers need to keep everyone alive." They sound stressful and like they have a lot of weight on their shoulders. But, y'know, they really don't. Tanking and healing are easy. Tanking and/or healing while doing consistently good damage is somewhat less easy, but also happens to not be required (community standards aside) for more than 95% of the content in the game. People are also possibly bringing the concepts of healing and tanking in other games, like WoW, to this one and immediately opting out of it for reasons even though the issues they have may not be applicable here.

[Vstarstruck]

I agree that a failure at enrage is ultimately due to lack of damage going out. But does it necessarily mean it’s the fault of the DPS? If the healers aren’t handling the raidwide damage properly, using shields and etc and the DPS die, is it still their fault? Or if the tanks mess up the tankswaps or don’t use CDs? However, there are times that your statement about poor DPS play is true. I have no ability to quantify that however.



I get the outrage and I’m glad this post was not as hostile, thank you. I have been a healer and support main going back to FFXI and 2003. In XIV, I have been a healer or tank main forever. I get the challenge, I like it. I wouldn’t play those roles if I didn’t.



I’m the opposite, I like healing and tanking more than DPSing at endgame, by like a lot. When I do EX primals with friends, I want to heal or tank. I don’t want to DPS. Most people who tank or heal actually wanted to play those roles. For me, PLD, AST and WHM are my main three (3) jobs. I only get on BRD or RDM when I let someone else have a turn healing or tanking.



I think the lack of players wanting to be tanks or healers is from a lack of being looked at as being powerful. That they aren’t the killers of the monsters and evil things, the DPS do that. The DPS even get the LB as their personal toy.

Think of a champion in most fantasy games. Think of all the main characters in Final Fantasy games, I’m going to guess that the healer tending the wounds of the sick is not that image. But that is what people see healers as to a point.

Simply put, tanks and healers just aren’t seen as “sexy”. No, the added visibility doesn’t help their cause, but it has a lot of company.

Nice post, and yeah it should be noted healers and tanks can cause problems for the DPS, even as simply thing as positioning. In all honestly tanks and healers don't have to do much to pass a run, its the good ones that do, and good dps have the same weight they put on themselves. Some people just put too much pressure on themselves and think some class has higher expectations then another and sorta "fear it" even on these boards I seen a few posts in regards to that.

At the end of the day, most levels like 1-40? tanks can't cause wipes, only healers and dps can. A DPS causes wipes in those levels if the tank does huge pulls and does not really do anything, causing the healer to be overwhelmed or running out of mp. Higher levels tanks can cause wipes by making huge pulls and not bother to use a CD or make sure things are hit by flash, etc.

At the end of the day people in general finger point blame more often then admitting they caused the issue. At first glance it may be hard to believe a DPS died because it was the DPS fault. *insert people died, healer fault meme*

RichardButte, you seem to have some bias and keep repeating the same things over and over. I really feel these comments would been better placed in threads with subjects of why we need better teaching tools in the game for players. This thread is nothing more then taking a servery on how people feel about parsing. So when you are taking your comments from other threads and putting them here, it is easy to see why people may not understand where you are coming from, like how you misunderstood Istaru's sarcasm.