Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[Llugen]

Well, their normal rotation wouldn't stay the same by those parameters though, because Verthunder/Veraero have a 5s cast time.

Really if they want to nerf it down, just remove the dualcast trait from Verraise and Vercure. Bam, it can still be hardcast or swiftcast, but no dispenser.

On top of this, increase it's MP cost to, say, HALF the RDM's MP bar or more. This would prevent "back to back" raising and make the tool much more costly to use.

Lastly, remove Resurrection-in-battle trait from SMN completely.


To sound like a huge tool again, I'm going to quote myself from earlier in this thread... again:

Note how this would create a situation where BLM is "high damage and low (zero) party utility", SMN is "moderate damage and moderate party utility", and RDM is "low damage and high party utility (buff embolden plz) including recovery tools in an emergency and at great cost".

This is what balance looks like. Or at least, by their own logic.

[Alistaire]

...That's why I specifically said 5 seconds off instead of lightspeed's 2.5.

It's also funny to note that Verraise has a longer base casting time than raise/resurrection, and they could further tweak that if they wanted if 5 seconds off made it still too accessible.

[Kurando]

.Lastly, remove Resurrection-in-battle trait from SMN completely.

All traits in relation to Ressurection/Raise/Ascend were removed in Stormblood (probably because base classes lost the ability to use it with role ability changes). Which makes a lot of sense as it would be pointless to have a rez skill if it could not be used in combat. I can tell you you just dislike any rez skill if you did not look in to that properly.

[Remedi]

Tbh Resurrection was always possible in combat while raise and ascend had to be traited

[HaroldSaxon]

What they really need to do is buff RDM damage so the only reason to bring it isn't just the raises. And if that'd make their raises too powerful, just make dualcast work similar to lightspeed; except take a flat 5 seconds off (lightspeed takes off 2.5) casting time instead of instant cast. That way their normal rotation stays the same while they'd still need swiftcast for an instant raise.

I disagree with that direction. If they do get buffed, then it should be via Raidwide DPS rather than personal DPS, and being able to reliably fit melee combos into burst windows. That said, i'm unsure if it should receive buffs while it has the current raise utility, although you do "raise" a interesting possible fix for it.

[HaroldSaxon]

I can agree with getting something unique, but in my opinion "something unique" is a special-function raise that's on a 180s recast that costs no MP and is off-GCD.

An interesting idea, but BLM has issues with using OGCD's as it is - that would actually suite RDM more.

Unless the utility can bring unconscious players back from the dead, it will by definition be inferior to the support that RDM/SMN is able to provide: spot raising someone who messes up a mechanic/is deliberately sacrificing/"for science", etc.

For early progression to allow you to see parts of the fight you haven't seen before? Sure. For kill runs/farm runs/speed runs - Not really.

[Llugen]

I apologize I wasn't aware of the change removing the traits. Also, shaving 5 seconds off Verraise would STILL make it really strong, unless they also increased its cast time to a whopping 12 seconds.


BLM would be a lot stronger in the off-GCD department if the class had more reliable proc structures for weaving (not to mention little spurts of movement). Hence why I'm also advocating for that so strongly.
Ultimately early progression is all that matters to me, as that is when Raise is the most valuable. The only thing that I do not want is to be "stuck" playing RDM for progression only to be "permitted" to return to BLM afterward. Afterward, certainly Raise loses value, but again- just let the RDMs play RDM and let the BLMs play BLM.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

I disagree with that direction. If they do get buffed, then it should be via Raidwide DPS rather than personal DPS, and being able to reliably fit melee combos into burst windows. That said, i'm unsure if it should receive buffs while it has the current raise utility, although you do "raise" a interesting possible fix for it.

I'm going to chime in here and say buffing Raidwide DPS would not be a great idea, really the only tool Red Mage has for it is Embolden unless they tweak some other ability to add a debuff of some sort. And if we make Embolden too powerful (without extending damage types anyway) it becomes cemented in comps which isn't healthy for game balance. On the flip side if any tweaks aren't strong enough Red Mage stays as progression babysitter. Thus Red Mage really needs a minor-mild bump in the personal dps department. As far as reliably fitting melee combos in that's pretty tough to engineer seeing as the 'effective cooldown' of the melee combo is fairly dependent on RNG although it's generally around 35-45 seconds between combos excluding Manafication.


Llugen I'm with you on Verraise not being dualcasted, but I don't really understand why Vercure would need to be taken off it as well. I mean sure it's helpful to a point, but the most use it gets is prepping Dualcast during phase transitions.

[HaroldSaxon]

I apologize I wasn't aware of the change removing the traits. Also, shaving 5 seconds off Verraise would STILL make it really strong, unless they also increased its cast time to a whopping 12 seconds.


BLM would be a lot stronger in the off-GCD department if the class had more reliable proc structures for weaving (not to mention little spurts of movement). Hence why I'm also advocating for that so strongly.
Ultimately early progression is all that matters to me, as that is when Raise is the most valuable. The only thing that I do not want is to be "stuck" playing RDM for progression only to be "permitted" to return to BLM afterward. Afterward, certainly Raise loses value, but again- just let the RDMs play RDM and let the BLMs play BLM.

I still think it would be more interesting to let BLM use OGCD's while casting. It would be a unique mechanic and would fit with the class.

I'm going to chime in here and say buffing Raidwide DPS would not be a great idea, really the only tool Red Mage has for it is Embolden unless they tweak some other ability to add a debuff of some sort. And if we make Embolden too powerful (without extending damage types anyway) it becomes cemented in comps which isn't healthy for game balance. On the flip side if any tweaks aren't strong enough Red Mage stays as progression babysitter. Thus Red Mage really needs a minor-mild bump in the personal dps department. As far as reliably fitting melee combos in that's pretty tough to engineer seeing as the 'effective cooldown' of the melee combo is fairly dependent on RNG although it's generally around 35-45 seconds between combos excluding Manafication.


Llugen I'm with you on Verraise not being dualcasted, but I don't really understand why Vercure would need to be taken off it as well. I mean sure it's helpful to a point, but the most use it gets is prepping Dualcast during phase transitions.

My point was that having RDM being the "Supportive" caster with the raid wide DPS that a bard brings, it would help bring about multiple caster comps if teams want to bring it. I feel like just bringing its raw DPS up would make it just another SMN. It would be great to have a Low DPS/High Raid Buff Caster, a Mid DPS/Mid Raid Buff Caster and a High DPS/Low raid buff Caster.

But I do agree with you about the Embolden danger and the Melee combos, but right now Embolden is really not that great - its nothing compared to Trick! I think Jump had some ideas about the melee combos though.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

I still think it would be more interesting to let BLM use OGCD's while casting. It would be a unique mechanic and would fit with the class.



My point was that having RDM being the "Supportive" caster with the raid wide DPS that a bard brings, it would help bring about multiple caster comps if teams want to bring it. I feel like just bringing its raw DPS up would make it just another SMN. It would be great to have a Low DPS/High Raid Buff Caster, a Mid DPS/Mid Raid Buff Caster and a High DPS/Low raid buff Caster.

But I do agree with you about the Embolden danger and the Melee combos, but right now Embolden is really not that great - its nothing compared to Trick! I think Jump had some ideas about the melee combos though.

Oh no I agree, Embolden isn't anything special. Personally I think RDM needs some tuning to feel more rewarding with their personal DPS and also that they bring more to the party other than Raise dispensing, which most RDMs are kind of over it anyway.