Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[Llugen]

Yes, it does, when the caster role has one allocated slot in standard comps, while the melee role has two.



This is why the OP talks about either remove raise from RDM/SMN or give it to BLM. Role balance.

Furthermore, as we've stated there are obviously "tiers" of tools. It would make no sense to insist that BLM must have embolden or devotion for role balance, although SOMETHING would indeed be nice, but it DOES make sense when access to Raise is basically "S tier", as we've agreed over the course of this thread.


This is why this matters so much and I keep bringing up the SAM/BLM paradox. Why would you waste your caster slot on the "raw damage" when you could put the "raw damage" in the melee slot and bring a caster with recovery tools for more classes with recovery tools overall in the group AND the same access to "raw damage"?! Please tell me this makes sense.

[Remedi]

And who says that there should be only 1 caster slot? there could be 2, ranged had 2 for a good while, melee sometimes have 3, those are still standard comps

[Llugen]

Not for progression during gear split, this is plain. In fact I'm surprised you're even saying this.


Casters share all left and right side gear. If nothing else, purely for the sake of gear efficiency it makes no sense to bring two casters.


Ranged has two now because prog pushing is long over; no one is fighting over gear. Also related, Lucrezia using RDM for early prog SMN for mid prog and BRD+MCH for the clear. And by the way, nothing in Unending is gear-related. It's just the totem that you can turn in for ANY weapon.


Everything that I've said about Raise relates the MOST to early prog and hoping to give BLM a closer-to-equal footing than the other jobs, otherwise, can't wait to be stuck playing SMN again.

[Remedi]

considering how BLM favors spellspeed while the other 2 don't the gear point is moot also gear is frankly stupidily easy to get in this game.


Frankly this horse has been beaten to death already atm we are arguing over minor point about what is more likely to happen, which is up to their whim.


I've said enough how bad of influence dualcast raise has been to the community and how terrible would be spreading to the role, there's nothing more that I can say unless repeating myself.
Take from it what you will

[Llugen]

I mean, you're not wrong on either of those points but it's completely away from everything I've been saying, so "irrelevant" if you're trying to contend my point still.

My point being: with one caster per standard group in mind, BLM makes the least sense having no recovery tools given that the others do for early progression especially. Even if speed isn't on a piece when you're beefing up your ilvl at the start, you're going to use it and meld some speed then optimize after. By extension, the difference when you have 1-2 clears vs already having 10 clears is staggering.


I mean, I'm pretty sure that's the very first thing I said in this thread is how ridiculous rez dispensing is and how, after their stance of "raise is very powerful" for all of 2.x and 3.x, they decide "here take this class that can pump out raise lemayo". I'm shocked they didn't nerf it right then and there, but based on the fact that they didn't, nor still, nor does it look like they will, here I am. Preaching about how BLM deserves access to a Raise tool to compete.

[HyoMinPark]

I believe there was already a statement made by Yoshi-P that the adjustments to BLM in 4.2 would be strictly damage adjustments. I’m of the mindset that BLM does not need a Raise—not from any sort of lore standpoint or what have you, but just that it isn’t needed. What they need is more damage to make up for the fact that they do not bring Raise/utility to a group like SMN or RDM do.

There is nothing wrong with having selfish DPS like BLM and SAM. But, said selfish DPS need to have high enough personal damage to make them favorable over a job with lower damage and utility.

[HaroldSaxon]

Not for progression during gear split, this is plain. In fact I'm surprised you're even saying this.


Casters share all left and right side gear. If nothing else, purely for the sake of gear efficiency it makes no sense to bring two casters.


Ranged has two now because prog pushing is long over; no one is fighting over gear. Also related, Lucrezia using RDM for early prog SMN for mid prog and BRD+MCH for the clear. And by the way, nothing in Unending is gear-related. It's just the totem that you can turn in for ANY weapon.


Everything that I've said about Raise relates the MOST to early prog and hoping to give BLM a closer-to-equal footing than the other jobs, otherwise, can't wait to be stuck playing SMN again.

In a world where Savage raids can be completed with full crafted gear and vit melds, as well as alt raids, gear splitting is less of an issue. The main reason caster comps aren't viable is because they don't bring the performance that a double melee comp brings.

On the subject of adding a raise - they should add something unique, rather than the same thing to each caster class.

[Savagelf]

I think black mage will get raise spell but it be called some else. see it problem be at lvl 80 or 70 to 80 when it get it

[Llugen]

I can agree with getting something unique, but in my opinion "something unique" is a special-function raise that's on a 180s recast that costs no MP and is off-GCD.

Unless the utility can bring unconscious players back from the dead, it will by definition be inferior to the support that RDM/SMN is able to provide: spot raising someone who messes up a mechanic/is deliberately sacrificing/"for science", etc.

[Alistaire]

What they really need to do is buff RDM damage so the only reason to bring it isn't just the raises. And if that'd make their raises too powerful, just make dualcast work similar to lightspeed; except take a flat 5 seconds off (lightspeed takes off 2.5) casting time instead of instant cast. That way their normal rotation stays the same while they'd still need swiftcast for an instant raise.