Please make cash-shop stuff earn-able in game

[Hestzhyen]

He's mocking people always asking for shop mounts to be added as obtainable in the game, saying that if they do that, they should just as well add all mounts to the store.

Edit: I mean, if they did add the cash shop mounts into the game with steep hurdles, what is the difference in them adding Savage, PVP and Hunts mounts etc. to the store?

Mounts that you are required to clear game content for -story/class quests or extraneous difficult stuff- should never be sold for cash. They're the proof of having completed something. Stuff like the WHM mount, the various story mounts (who in their right mind would buy these anyway?!), mounts earned from EX/Savage clears, etc.
Mounts that you earn by grinding gated content/conditionally counted achievement mounts should never be sold for cash. Stuff like the mentor roulette mount, #PvP wins in certain modes, tanking for end-game content, hunt marks, etc.. They're rewarded for doing something outside of the norm.
Mounts that you earn from seasonal quests, or mounts that randomly drop in common content (like the dungeons), could be added to the store. The Ala Mhigo mount, for instance (though that was added as bait to get people to run it even when it's no longer relevant so people don't get stuck at that point in the story if they join late).

Mounts currently in the store could be counted as these last category mounts- no proof of working hard, or clearing difficult content, or doing something outside of normal play to display skill or excessive determination. That's exactly what the cash shop mounts could be, in content going forward. Want people to run Castrum and Praetorium? Stick a random chance of a Carbuncle mount being dropped at the end. BOOM. Even if it's a ridiculously low % drop rate, you'll get people running that content forever. And people like me would feel less animosity towards the store since SE would be extending an olive branch of sorts to those of us who hate to see a cash shop on top of a monthly sub.

[Settiesama]

Snip

So then they would be rather easily farmable, which would stop all sales. If they make them too easy, no one would want to buy, so they would have to make them difficult, putting them in the same level of grind or difficulty as the PVP/Hunt/Savage mounts etc. Meaning their worth would be sellable as well.

Your sub merely pays for access into the servers to help keep it running, it does not in any shape or form guarantee you access to everything the game has to offer. The store, like with most P2P MMOs now, offer cosmetic items or catch up items to help assist with the funds. You do not need anything in the store to play or win the game. If you don't like it, don't buy, simple as, but it's not going to change, and any suggestions about adding it's stuff into the game to be obtainable would either halt sales, or take the worth out of the in game stuff.

[Hestzhyen]

So then they would be rather easily farmable, which would stop all sales. If they make them too easy, no one would want to buy, so they would have to make them difficult, putting them in the same level of grind or difficulty as the PVP/Hunt/Savage mounts etc. Meaning their worth would be sellable as well.

Make the drop rate 1% or less- so low it's very much worth the time saved to buy it. The rise of smartphone games nickle and diming people to death with purchasable productivity/ability to even PLAY the game after you run out of stamina is proof of that. If you give someone the choice of waiting to get lucky or paying "reasonable" fee to get what they want, a depressing amount of people will simply pay up.

Farming savage mounts can be extremely tedious, but you still need to have the requisite skill to farm the encounter. Something mindless like story dungeons are not indicative of player skill unless said players are somehow not able to breathe, move forward, and press some buttons at the same time. Adding optional tedious grind for a minuscule chance of getting lucky doing something that even the most brain-dead players are supposed to be able to complete will not diminish the worth of Savage/EX mounts. And the option to buy it and skip the chore of running the instance will be very appealing to the kinds of people who already buy mounts and stuff from the shop. For the rest of us, it's something we can try to gamble for. You can still have your mount when you want it and everyone else can still safely ignore it or run old, necessary content repeatedly to try for a drop.

No one needs anything in the cash shop to play and enjoy XIV. But to me it's stark naked greed on SE's part to have cash-shop only items when we pay a sub to fund the game's entire existence in the first place. I'm not saying they shouldn't try to make more money, but they could at least take the sting out of seeing a $20 mount for sale by giving us SOME way of trying to earn it, even if the odds are stacked against us.

Heck, I've been playing since 2014 and have nothing to show for my loyalty except for thousands of achievement points I can't use. Why not convert them to a store credit of some kind? Maybe not enough to pay for the mount entirely, but enough to bring it down to a price I'd settle for since SE is indirectly rewarding me for playing the game and supporting them for all these years. I'd be ok with buying a mount or emote or some such thing if I could somehow credit all of my in-game effort towards the price in some way.

[Settiesama]

Snip

Phone games and MMOs are two different things. MMOs are a whole different type of grind, and the determination on farming things with unlimited limits will drive them to continue days on end. If you add say, Nightmare to the Cash Shop which is something very similar to what you are implying, do you honestly think people would buy him? Knowing they could farm Garuda so easily. Sales will die, or become so low that they wouldn't even be worth putting in the cash shop, and then guess what? All these special designs we have for the cash shop would cease to be created because the team that works on them wouldn't get the payment worth it.

Again, if you don't wanna buy, don't buy. If you really want it, then work an extra hour or two at work for it or beg very nicely for extra pocket money.

[Hestzhyen]

Phone games and MMOs are two different things. MMOs are a whole different type of grind, and the determination on farming things with unlimited limits will drive them to continue days on end. If you add say, Nightmare to the Cash Shop which is something very similar to what you are implying, do you honestly think people would buy him? Knowing they could farm Garuda so easily. Sales will die, or become so low that they wouldn't even be worth putting in the cash shop, and then guess what? All these special designs we have for the cash shop would cease to be created because the team that works on them wouldn't get the payment worth it.

Again, if you don't wanna buy, don't buy. If you really want it, then work an extra hour or two at work for it or beg very nicely for extra pocket money.

I'm not rich, but I can certainly afford to spend an extra $20 if I want a mount. Not everyone who's upset about the cash shop is barely able to pay their sub.

I'm not saying to add Nightmare or trial mounts to the shop. I'm not sure why you're willfully misunderstanding me unless you really like my replies for some strange reason.

The hypothetical conditions I'm talking about are 1) content that everyone can do, 2) NEW content that is vital to the story (old content entirely unaffected and unchanged), 3) drop rates so low only the most hard-core grinders out there would go for it on a regular basis and get rewarded, 4) probably in a very long instance that takes a long time to complete and prohibits speed runs by design.

I'm not kidding when I say if you put a simple choice before people to get what they want- wait and maybe get lucky or buy and get now- a significant majority WILL pay. That's how you see all this pay to win nonsense creeping into major games, even single player titles. People will pay money to skip or ease up on grind restrictions if the price is right. XIV has hardcore players that might cost them a few sales. But if you put a mount in the game and say "get now and be cute with your friends or grind like a no-life loser", I think SE will definitely come out ahead. And the rest of us will be less annoying to you since we have a way to get it if we want it badly enough without spending extra cash.

[Settiesama]

I'm not sure why you're willfully misunderstanding me

You also seem to be misunderstanding me and my counter debate. Having a mount from the cash shop go into the game is no different from having a mount from the game go into cash shop, so my statement on Nightmare stands. Given the choice of farming or buying in an MMO such as this, the majority will flock to the former so long as the difficulty is easy, even if it is time consuming. It would need some element of difficulty, or an extremely long dungeon that no one would ever do for them to switch majorly towards store. Even IF sales were still decent, it would be no where near what they are now, and that still would not make it worth the creation of the mounts for the team working on the Mogstation. It's also because of said team that this is an absolutely pointless conversation, since they don't work on XIV, only make stuff for it. Since Yoshi P is not actually in charge of the Mogstation too, he can't add the stuff in the game as such.