Healing in 4man parties (The experience 60-70)

[Ayer2015]

....really? d-d-do that many other tanks not use cooldowns? are Darkhold-style wall to boss pulls of 3+ packs that common? is this a chaos data center thing?

Yes, there are MANY tanks that never use CDs on trash pulls. Which in a dungeon its more beneficial to use them on trash then the bosses.

[Tridus]

1. Tanks pulling the entire mobs until the dungeon don't let them pull anymore pulls, don't use any defensive cooldowns, they don't care if there is a big one who cleaves or hits really hard... and wipe. This is madness.

Welcome to healing. It's a running joke that we're the saltiest players on the Earth, because we need to deal with all the crap the other roles shovel at us on a bad day.

It's a hard problem to solve because some groups are much more capable than others, and for those ones, being forced to do one pack at a time will be coma inducing. DF groups vary wildly in skill composition, so sometimes you get people where some want to go fast and others aren't capable of it, making it a frustrating experience.

[spagthetapdancer]

Yes, there are MANY tanks that never use CDs on trash pulls. Which in a dungeon its more beneficial to use them on trash then the bosses.

what about the other stuff?

Welcome to healing. It's a running joke that we're the saltiest players on the Earth, because we need to deal with all the crap the other roles shovel at us on a bad day.

It's a hard problem to solve because some groups are much more capable than others, and for those ones, being forced to do one pack at a time will be coma inducing. DF groups vary wildly in skill composition, so sometimes you get people where some want to go fast and others aren't capable of it, making it a frustrating experience.

I do oftentimes joke that the healer doesn't fight the mobs. they fight the party. you're constantly herding suicidal cats when you play healer.

[MoroMurasaki]

Yes, burden of proof of ANY claim, is supposed to be handled by the person making the claim.

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You're free to do it, but it doesnt make your arguments look any more right or wrong.)

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I doubt the OP recorded them, otherwise the OP would have posted them.

If someone is accused of murder it is up to the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused committed that murder. Any evidence presented by the defense, while helpful, is ultimately a moot point if the prosecution can't form a compelling case. If the defendant pleads not guilty they aren't then accusing the prosecution of anything. It is not a positive claim to say someone else is wrong.

The OP (and you) have laid out the claims that DF tanks are generally awful, single pulling dungeons is considerably more time-efficent and you've done literally nothing to back any of that up.

When you have a platform to speak from (evidence of these claims) then it becomes an actual debate. Right now you have no case, just you and other people known for habitually complaining sitting here and complaining. That isn't a compelling case at all.

In this most recent post even you are admitting that the claims the OP is making are unreasonable. To find a scenario to fit into them you need to specify one group doing big pulls with no AoE and another doing small pulls with AoE.

Honestly do you think that the vast majority of the OP's leveling experience from 60 to 70 can be summed up by only those two things happening? Because I think we both know that is incredibly unlikely. The normal strategy with SB dungeons is to pull big and AoE down the trash. Most tanks pull big. Most healers and DPS AoE down the trash. This isn't a secret strategy we only tell people once they reach 70.

I'm sorry if my continued protests that you have some kind of issue have offended you in some way. I can certainly be a very cut and dry person and the internet doesn't help that. It doesn't come from a place of malice, I genuinely don't understand how someone with a strong grasp on how healing plays in this game could have such frequent issues with basic content.

As to your specific question on the colossus pull I always situate myself away from the rest of the party when that kind of add is in play so that the only attack I'll have to dodge is one aimed right at me. The first few times I did that dungeon the colossus was pulled alone. If someone does the full pull there I can only remember one wipe and that was as an AST. As a WHM I have always been okay there.

Essentially I think you're taking a hyperbolic hypothetical situation (one specific pull of one dungeon out of 5 leveling dungeons in SB, in lower gear with a poor tank) and trying to frame your argument around it. It's also a scenario (specifically the tank being taken down to nothing in one GCD) that is rare enough I don't remember the last time I saw it.

I also think the OP's original post is not something that can be substantiated. If you recall that was the bulk of my first post in this thread. If we agree that those numbers are not likely to come up when replicated in a more controlled enviroment what are you even arguing here? You were backing up the OP's claims for the past few pages. It's fine if you don't want to anymore, I also think those claims are false, I guess I just don't understand what your point is anymore.

[VanilleFang]

I have never, ever had a run that was faster because we did small pulls. As a WHM main I want big pulls because that's where WHM shines best. If I'm doing my job right then there shouldn't really be an issue. Even if the tank is sub-par I can generally push through. Some things lead to wipes (tank getting me cleaved for example) but if that happens then I try to play it safer and keep a closer eye on where the tank and I are standing.

Big pulls, in my experience, generally go south due to bad DPS.

[Bobs]

Snip

I would say that a forum is more of a peer review system. Like in science. That being the case the burden of proof falls on the person presenting the facts. FF14 is just a bunch of code, hard facts. There is a correct answer. It's an elaborate math problem.

The legal system relies more on convincing a jury and thus is just a string of opinions sometimes backed by facts and most of the time muddied by emotions.