DRK Suggestion for more damage and skill ceiling

[Chrono_Rising]

Agreed or defenses that surpass the other tanks.

In my opinion, I think that Dark Knight presents the developers with a difficulty when tuning. On the one hand, Dark Knight should be tuned so that using dark arts and TBN in an average non pushing way, Dark Knight will break even in all areas with the other tanks. The problem comes from pushing, if I spend all my resources on damage, then I expect that I will no longer break even, in fact I would expect that dark knight will surpass the others while being a bit squishy, if I spend all my resources on mitigation then I expect dark knight to be more defensive than any other tank while putting out worse numbers. What they developers have done instead to remedy this is to make it so that when we invest entirely in one area we break even with the other tanks. And this is where the dark knight issue is, we cannot break even in one area and drop everything else and be desireable, no other tank needs to make that choice and so this just becomes a reason to not run dark knight. I think that is why dark knight feels so held back at times, they don't want it to completely surpass the other tanks by investing all its resources into one area or by gaining more resources and being able to invest in multiple areas.

We see this design in so much of dark knight:
1. Party Mana Refresh: you cannot regenerate mana from outside sources unless you drop darkside. Even though this benefits paladin as well, for dark knight its held back by canceling the effect. You can have Darkside for damage, but not mana refresh for damage.

2. Mana Generation: In grit we generate more mana from our combo, when we drop grit we gain blood weapon but lose the bonus mana from the combo. These are close to canceling eachother out by a few hundred mana out of 14.5k mana (I analyzed this in an older post if interested it was also analyzed by SzyleSpark). Blood Weapon's offensive cooldown is just a speed up and extra blood generation (as well as squeezing our grit mana generation over 40 seconds into 15 seconds).

3. On demand mitigation: TBN is just shy of a break even to use(when not in grit see the next point for when in grit), and is unique in this aspect. Paladin has sheltron which procs shield swipe for 150 potency attacks. If warrior is in defiance Inner Beast is a large dps gain over their combo (though deliverance is way better regardless.). Yes, we can put this shield on others, but as has been pointed out, a 5k shield on a dps or current MT once every 15 seconds doesn't do much.

4. DPS bonuses present in defensive stances: TBN is actually really good, if you are in grit since bloodspiller has bonus potency both in its base and when used with dark arts. You generate more mana in grit with siphon strike bonuses and blood price than out of grit with blood weapon. Dark Knight kit is designed in such a way that dps bonuses are available only in a stance which punishes dark knight dps. Paladin generates more gauge in sword oath than in shield leading to more free sheltrons to proc shield swipe, warrior has resource cuts in deliverance but not in defiance. Only Dark Knight is designed backwards giving you dps/resource bonuses when you are in tank stance.

This is on top of the stuff I would already expect of a resource tank. What is it that I expect? Well I expect that if I have to spend resources to power up moves that I can either:
a. Do Damage (example: Carve and Spit)
b. Power up mitigation (example: Dark Mind)

but may need to choose between these two things.

We don't see this kind of thing on another tank though. Consider warrior, also in many respects a resource based tank. They can either spend their resources on mitigating or doing dps. However, their mitigation kit is designed in such a way as to allow them to ignore spending resources on mitigation! This "flaw" in their kit is actually designed around, imagine if such a philosophy was implemented with dark knight.

[DamianTenbe]

Drk got an serious issue it needs changes.

[Kabooa]

I really fail to understand why people want scourge back.

I want the animation.

[FallenWings]

Snip

The issue with TBN is that the other tank's do not have an equivalent of gain defensive bonus and get refunded the damage. Aside from Sheltron maybe adding a bit that wasn't already given from passive shield blocks, WAR's equivalent being Innerbeast or Fell Cleave and Unchained or Infuriate are genuine hard losses and pigeon hole WAR into Deliverance onri.

As a concept I enjoy the idea of TBN alot in which excellent mitigation = more effective DPS = obvious value increase. But it is difficult to balance unless the other tanks also enjoy that concept.

But the problem isn't so much the concept of TBN.

It's the HUGE GAPING HOLE OF OTHER COOLDOWNS that surround TBN.

War honestly never bloody needed Rampart and DRK NEEDS Shadowskin back(ontop of Rampart).

[Chrono_Rising]

The issue with TBN is that the other tank's do not have an equivalent of gain defensive bonus and get refunded the damage. Aside from Sheltron maybe adding a bit that wasn't already given from passive shield blocks, WAR's equivalent being Innerbeast or Fell Cleave and Unchained or Infuriate are genuine hard losses and pigeon hole WAR into Deliverance onri.

As a concept I enjoy the idea of TBN alot in which excellent mitigation = more effective DPS = obvious value increase. But it is difficult to balance unless the other tanks also enjoy that concept.

As stated, paladin has sheltron shield swipe synergy, Warrior has counter attacks on vengeance. The place where damage for mitigating is missing is on dark knight.

[Marxam]

Some changes that I hope will happen:

1. TBN increased to 6 seconds from 5 seconds.
2. Dark Arts now affects Shadow Wall. Reduce damage by 40% when buffed with Dark Arts.
3. Living Dead has a doom counter graphic on the player counting down from five seconds when under the effect of "Walking Dead". Time graphic expires when player is healed to 100% prematurely or if it reaches 0.
4. Dark Passenger costs no mp. DA buff is still the same.

[DamianTenbe]

Dark Arts animation a bit to long I think. It should go out a bit faster for smoother rotation.

[TheCount]

Some changes that I hope will happen:

1. TBN increased to 6 seconds from 5 seconds.
2. Dark Arts now affects Shadow Wall. Reduce damage by 40% when buffed with Dark Arts.
3. Living Dead has a doom counter graphic on the player counting down from five seconds when under the effect of "Walking Dead". Time graphic expires when player is healed to 100% prematurely or if it reaches 0.
4. Dark Passenger costs no mp. DA buff is still the same.

1. Sure yeah i'll take that, even one second more there is pretty good and handy.
2. ...bleh. So the Dark Knight would have to use yet more of its mana to get a slightly upgraded defensive. I don't think that's really a buff, it's just kinda shifting the problem a little
3. That would be pretty sweet
4. Helllll yes.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Keep the technical limitation of 60 buffs / debuffs per target in mind and don't forget that this also needs to work out for 24-man or higher content.

1 word: stacks.

It works for when you screw up a boss mechanic or boss mechanics just naturally cause something that makes a status ailment to stack like an add, why wouldn't it work for player abilities? Also see MNK

[DRKoftheAzure]

I really fail to understand why people want scourge back.

I just want Heavensward Delirium weaponskill combo back, even if they have to call it Scourge... that animation was way better and it got reduced to crappy silence for all tanks that doesn't even do damage... (Yet NIN got to keep their Silence with damage and DRG and MNK got to keep their damaging stuns...) if PLDs can keep their built-in stun and same with certain melee DPS as well NIN keeping silence THAT CAN DO DAMAGE then there is no excuse why everyone should have their own unique flavor of stun/silence... and that is 1 of the biggest things I HATE ABOUT ROLE ACTIONS!