Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

[akaneakki]

I've actually avoiding capping for a while now, outside of my alt that's a tank. Given I didn't cap last week on him either.

So yes. Kinda.

This game needs turtorial for new players, that forces them to do them. Basic rotations, what to do when you see 3 or more mobs in a group together. You have a NPC tell you to do it and only way for you to beat the trial is you do excatly what the NPC tells you to do, otherwise you won't pass. They should do this. Then on dummy strikes they should add mechanics from fights on the dummy strike they trying.
Let's say NPC say, heavy thrust increases your damage by 10% for 30 seconds, allows you to do 2 -3 rotation during that rotation. If you don't do heavy thrust before hitting the npc or dummy, you wont pass. Simple stuff like that can make players get a long way honestly.

[RitsukoSonoda]

This game needs turtorial for new players, that forces them to do them. Basic rotations, what to do when you see 3 or more mobs in a group together. You have a NPC tell you to do it and only way for you to beat the trial is you do excatly what the NPC tells you to do, otherwise you won't pass. They should do this. Then on dummy strikes they should add mechanics from fights on the dummy strike they trying.
Let's say NPC say, heavy thrust increases your damage by 10% for 30 seconds, allows you to do 2 -3 rotation during that rotation. If you don't do heavy thrust before hitting the npc or dummy, you wont pass. Simple stuff like that can make players get a long way honestly.

Cept the bad players will just skip the tutorial. Gating more content would have a much more noticeable effect. >.>

[akaneakki]

Cept the bad players will just skip the tutorial. Gating more content would have a much more noticeable effect. >.>

That's why I said it should be forced. In blade and soul, when you did the story you came to a part during the story some npcs would teach you how to do certain things and only way to get away from there is to actually do excactly what the NPC would tell you to do, otherwise you were stuck. You had to do it more than 3 times too. Also in FFXI there was a npc called maat, that you HAD to beat, otherwise you couldn't reach level 75. You had to beat the npc with the class you reached at 70, unless you already did it on another job, then you wouldn't have to do it again. Anyways a npc like that would been nice to, gate them behind something they have to beat by themselves to do basic rotations and selfbuffs etc, otherwise you would not be avaible to do certain things.

[Krotoan]

That's like saying, wiping 10 times every 5 min in extreme trials makes you lose ''only'' 50 min to get a kill. Expert that takes 25 min, is slow and I still stand on my point. The subject is people...l.

It's not great.. but I'm going to say if you're getting that everyday .. then the common denominator is you. Now before you say anything like "but I'm optimal" let me clarify: There is no way you're getting the 50 minute run people every day EVERY TIME. I can count the amount of times I've gotten those runs on one hand and I've been playing since 1.0. As for the 25 minute runs, I'll agree that if you're a regular runner used to 10< minute runs then it will be grating and no.. I'd probably not like that. But using DF is kind of accepting that people are going to possibly be very basic aaand I will say I get very few 25+ minute runs as well, not as few as timers running out but still less than 2 a month.

I WILL drop if I get more than 3 wipes in an EX trial, or 4+ in a normal with no attempt to improve.

I specifically said no wipes.. as in slow progression, I carefully read your responses I'd appreciate the same courtesy. If a run is dragging close to time expiration I WILL say something, but once again, this is a rare , rare thing.

I'm not gonna condemn people for trying in a game that has such a wide range of possible players. 25 minutes IS at least trying. You can vote people out for not being Optimal , that's your prerogative, but people will never have that problem if I'm in their party. I'm not apathetic, I'm empathetic. I understand expecting any more than basic competency in everyone is unrealistic and ... a little elitist. In the end you're going to drive YOURSELF nuts if you expect quick runs from every random you get in DF.

[akaneakki]

It's not great.. but I'm going to say if you're getting that everyday .. then the common denominator is you. Now before you say anything like "but I'm optimal" let me clarify: There is no way you're getting the 50 minute run people every day EVERY TIME.

Never said I did and I clearly said that I rarely get those super bad runs, most runs last 13-16 mins for me, which is completely fine for me. I don't expect people to play godsent in roulettes, but honestly the fact I've been lucky enought to see people do aoe in roulettes makes me happy, I've been in the ones who havent and the adds doesn't die fast enough before I'm a dead tank. 25 min is fine but is it really, REALLY trying? You can easily go with a BLM does rarely any aoe, use fire then blizzard in between and a healer doing no dps and a tank doing okay and a dps doing good. The BLM doing that type of rotation isn't trying, they playing it because its either, fun or they think it's the way of playing it. And I never said I expect godsent players in roulettes, so I kinda need you to quote me on that. All I ever said is people don't do aoe and 25 min is slow, because apperently for many players hitting a aoe button is hard.

[Krotoan]

Never said I did and I clearly said that I rarely get those super bad runs, most runs last 13-16 mins for me, which is completely fine for me. I don't expect people to play godsent in roulettes, but honestly the fact I've been lucky enought to see people do aoe in roulettes makes me happy, I've been in the ones who havent and the adds doesn't die fast enough before I'm a dead tank. 25 min is fine but is it really, REALLY trying? You can easily go with a BLM does rarely any aoe, use fire then blizzard in between and a healer doing no dps and a tank doing okay and a dps doing good. The BLM doing that type of rotation isn't trying, they playing it because its either, fun or they think it's the way of playing it. And I never said I expect godsent players in roulettes, so I kinda need you to quote me on that. All I ever said is people don't do aoe and 25 min is slow, because apperently for many players hitting a aoe button is hard.

you asked if I would be ok with that.. and of course nobody would be and it never happens like that. If that's happening every single time the problem is you (not you specifically but whomever it's constantly happening to).
I'm actually still fine with a healer who doesn't DPS. As long as they're on it with the heals, it's fine. Really, honestly it's fine for me. That's how healers have been since I started and any dps from a healer is just frosting for me.
Aoe vs single target is a whole 'nother fight though. Just.. do your combos and positionals and don't stand in the fire and I'm happy. Yes really.

[akaneakki]

you asked if I would be ok with that.. and of course nobody would be and it never happens like that.

Oh right! My bad. Yeah positionals is another whole story and I won't even go there. xD

[Neuflune]

OP, lemme tell you a story.

One time I was a healer and got into low level Qarn with my friends (2 DPS). When we got in, the tank was a marauder. Yes, you read that right. A marauder in a level 30+ duty. We thought hey maybe he forgot to equip his soulstone? But no, the tank had no other classes leveled up. At all. So anyway we did our best to get through the dungeon even though the tank never had aggro on anything at all ever. But at the second boss (mini titan golem thing?), I kept dying. Because I had aggro all the time. I could try to tank but I would run out of MP because the tank who was supposed to be wearing plate armor was wearing a very low level robe (you know that "All Classes" thing) instead, and so he was squishier than me. Now, my friends were Japanese (as was the tank) so they had been holding back from saying anything because that's how they roll with all the excessive politeness and martyrdom. But we really couldn't get past that boss so they finally suggested to the tank that he use some specific skills (the aggro combo).

The tank left the instance.

tl;dr -pats on back-

P.S. Got into story-mode Garuda with the same tank a few days later. He was still a marauder. I left the instance.

[SuperZay]

Qarn's 2nd boss has random aggro lock which can't be Provoked.

[Neuflune]

Qarn's 2nd boss has random aggro lock which can't be Provoked.

I was aware of that. It only starts once you break the soulstone once.

The marauder never had aggro on anything since the beginning of the duty, even the first boss. He'd just run in and auto-attack the first target.