Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

[Lathander81]

I think the thing you need to realize is that no matter why there will always be player that are not as skilled as others. The best thing you can do is worry about your gameplay and that of your friends/guildmates. Trying to make other people do what you want them to is a losing battle and frankly if you are the one getting angry on a forum then you have the problem my friend.

[Miste]

I think the thing you need to realize is that no matter why there will always be player that are not as skilled as others.

There is a difference between skill gaps and laziness, and honestly the basics of this game are very simple so most people can at least grasp those considering this game's age brackets....IF they aren't being lazy and just not bothering to read a few tooltips to understand their job a bit better.

A Tank unable to hold hate on anything at level 50+ is not a "skill gap" problem, it is simply laziness at that point since, using PLD as an example, you learn you're first enmity gaining weapon skill combo by level 4 (Fast Blade > Savage Blade) and Flash for AoE enmity at level 6.

Did you read that this thread was talking about just basics of each role? As in very minimal but at least attempting to do the role?

frankly if you are the one getting angry on a forum then you have the problem my friend.

Just because people are discussing this topic does not mean they are angry so what exactly are you talking about?

If you are discussing this topic you are automatically "angry on a forum" because you say so? Seems silly for you to assume you know how everyone else feels? Are you omniscient?

[Alleo]

I have never done healer hall, but do they say should or could? I agree a healer should DPS, and a tank should pull as much as he and the group can handle. Even semi afk players should be able to handle more then one group at a time. I mean most dungeons are trivial if people pull one group at a time.

Sadly I am not sure how the wording was (and since I am from Germany it might not be correct too) but it probably was not a "must do". Anyway its still kinda telling if the beginners hall do mention DPS as healer. I am not saying that people should DPS as a healer (and I dont want to start that debate again) just pointing out that maybe its just a bit more than simply healing a bit. (And some are not even able to do that..)

Well the recent DPS checks do feel like they are too easy but thats probably because we often over-level them. I mean the bees in the older dungeon or even the demon wall when it was still recent was quite the check. In the end you can carry one bad player through the instance if its a DD. If the healer is really bad you will probably not manage to finish it, the same with a tank. (Honestly for me and my tank friends its quite the rarity to have an Ala Mhigo run without the healer not messing up at at least one point. x))

Also I would never just kick someone for not doing DPS as a healer. If they have high gear and just stand around I will sigh and shake my head but I will go on with that. Just means that they wont get my recommendation at the end.

[Tridus]

Sadly I am not sure how the wording was (and since I am from Germany it might not be correct too) but it probably was not a "must do". Anyway its still kinda telling if the beginners hall do mention DPS as healer. I am not saying that people should DPS as a healer (and I dont want to start that debate again) just pointing out that maybe its just a bit more than simply healing a bit. (And some are not even able to do that..)

Been a while, but IIRC it was "should". It basically came down to if there's no healing that needs doing, add some DPS. They never tell you that you "must", and they never suggest to prioritize it over healing. They do suggest that standing around doing nothing isn't the best idea, which is pretty reasonable.

Also I would never just kick someone for not doing DPS as a healer. If they have high gear and just stand around I will sigh and shake my head but I will go on with that. Just means that they wont get my recommendation at the end.

I wouldn't either, in roulette. If we're having problems with enrages in Ex and I see it, that's different. I main a healer. While I don't claim to be awesome at DPS myself, I do far better than absolutely nothing. Most fights have plenty of windows to sneak some in without risking anyone's safety.

[Sebazy]

I think the thing you need to realize is that no matter why there will always be player that are not as skilled as others. The best thing you can do is worry about your gameplay and that of your friends/guildmates. Trying to make other people do what you want them to is a losing battle and frankly if you are the one getting angry on a forum then you have the problem my friend.

It's pretty important to keep a sense of perspective in threads like these. Very few people will care about the DPS that might be playing to 60% of their actual potential, frankly that's about par for the course these days with so many raiders on hiatus.

A good example of the standard of play that this thread is referring to would be the Sam I had in Rabanastre earlier today, I was rusty and playing badly by my own standards but managed to shake the worst of the rot off by the time Argath came round, at that point the Sam was doing less than 40% of the damage I was.... Given I even ran myself OOM from raises and couldn't hold Swiftcast for Medica IIs that's a pretty awful showing. Call me elitist or whatever, but I don't feel that that is in anyway acceptable and whilst it's only my own opinion, I'd frankly be embarrassed of myself if I played that poorly in any content.

If the guy had have hit 2 or 3k I wouldn't have even blinked an eye lid, but failing to even break 1k as a Sam in Rabanastre? That's shameful, yet the game happily hands them the same rewards and praise as those that actually put some effort in.

Of course, that leads onto what sort of options SE even have to address these sort of things, it's not like they can simply just throw a 'duty failed' at the guy for DPSing so poorly, that makes no sense. Having a PvP style end screen would be one approach but I suspect that'd have the children (on both sides of the coin) rioting rather quickly.

I made a suggestion on here a while back involving a simple potency per second based ranking (Aka S-A-B-C-D-E-F or such) on your personal performance alone. It's pretty standard faire for games to rank your performance at the end of a level these days and I think it's something that SE could integrate fairly easily, going off potency rather than dps makes it entirely gear agnostic whilst keeping it personal would also help ward off potential drama, subtle under performers get a gentle and fair nudge that 'hey, perhaps you're doing something wrong'. it's not going to work for everyone of course, some people simply don't care, but then there's little you can do for them beyond throwing the occasional difficulty spike to wake them up every once in a while.

[AmaSagahl]

While I totally agree with everything that has been said here, a performance ranking will never happen.

Unfortunately, the game never forces you to get good in your job. All the content except Savages and Shin are very, very forgiving. And while there are parties who even manage to wipe to Nidhogg Ex and screw up the tethers, it's still very forgiving.
I was a bad Samurai, totally honest here, until I got into high end raiding and met the right people who helped me improve and understand the job. That's when I realised, damn I have been doing a lot of things not right, but it didn't really matter because I got easily to Lvl70 anyway.

Easiest solution is to only play with gamers you know are good or eager to learn, from your FC or people you met in pugs and stayed in contact with.
Once you hit the Savages, especially o2s+ that's the only way to go really to avoid frustration. Also with Shin. I will never do the fight again with randoms tbh.

[Moomba33]

I have never done healer hall, but do they say should or could?

I looked it up to check and it does come off more as a suggestion than a must.
Exercise 2: "When you've healed all there is to heal, there may be time to weave in some offensive magicks" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brqqxJLsqG4 (around 2:04)
Exercise 3: "Another enemy is threatening your party! You might try attacking this foe if your allies are uninjured" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZO_Czn8ZCI (around 2:19)

[Jijifli]

frankly if you are the one getting angry on a forum then you have the problem my friend.

Would it have been better to, instead of skipping this longer rant on the forum, that I possibly blow up at the next extreme case I got? Maybe not that day, but over time this stuff builds up, and the last time my magical jar of patience had no room left for it, I ended up snapping at a player that didn't even meet these extreme's, which put a very sour taste in everyone's mouth afterwords, including my own.

I posted this simply to get frustration out before I made a worse result. I left it to be open for discussion because it also just didn't feel right putting a vent post that lead to completely nothing.

And yes, I do have an anger problem. I let things bother me when I shouldn't and things build up. I've been trying to improve on it and venting things out for the time being is helping me be more patient and forgiving.

[Sebazy]

And yes, I do have an anger problem. I let things bother me when I shouldn't and things build up. I've been trying to improve on it and venting things out for the time being is helping me be more patient and forgiving.

The best advice I can give you for this is not to think of it as an issue, but rather see it as a challenge to be tackled and enjoyed. Little Timmy's slacking is all the opportunity you ever needed to do his job for him and claim that sweet ranking reward as your own. In dungeons it gives you a chance to really knuckle down and see how deep the DPS rabbit hole goes. For 24 mans it's an opportunity to practice those MLG saves as well, I managed to bail that Sam from my prior post out of two Extreme Edge deaths for example, the first with rescue, the second with a timed Cure II into Esuna. If all else fails, embrace your inner schadenfreude and chuckle heartily as they burn

[Jijifli]

The best advice I can give you for this is not to think of it as an issue, but rather see it as a challenge to be tackled and enjoyed. Little Timmy's slacking is all the opportunity you ever needed to do his job for him and claim that sweet ranking reward as your own.

I tried this thought process before, head jumps right back around. Little Timmy's slack makes me not want to play with him, specially when I don't get any extra reward for doing what Timmy wouldn't do. In fact, he gets rewarded just as much.