Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

[Cakekizyy]

And here I thought when people started an MMO they agreed to play with other PEOPLE/PLAYERS, yet they act like they don't. Your argument is invalid. I would understand if this was a solo game, but sorry to say it's not.

Unless you are soloing, you are playing with others.

[Oscura]

And here I thought when people started an MMO they agreed to play with other PEOPLE/PLAYERS, yet they act like they don't. Your argument is invalid. I would understand if this was a solo game, but sorry to say it's not.

This is the root of the problem. So many people who disparage DPS meters, judging player performance, or people even reaching a bottom line absolutely love to bloody preach about how they care so much about other people. "Don't criticize other people, they did no wrong for playing the way they did!" "Don't kick people despite them holding the entire party back, you're ruining the fun!" "People should be able to play as they want, without anyone ever telling them otherwise!" "You'll make this game into a job!" Like it isn't a damn job carrying people.

There is no I in team, but they focus so heavily on the individual instead of the party, in a game based around parties. Screw the other 3 or 7 people, your PERSONAL experience matters to them.

Bunch of bloody hypocrites.

[akaneakki]

Unless you are soloing, you are playing with others.

[Cakekizyy]

You were commenting on someone saying not to pug. You can play with others and be social and still not pug.

[akaneakki]

You were commenting on someone saying not to pug. You can play with others and be social and still not pug.

Well........... again read what I said. Like, what about trying to play as a team mate in every group you are in pug or not? When I play with strangers or not, I always try my best. Hitting blizzard and thunder then fire every rotation isn't trying bro, it's flat out leeching and unfair. Yeah sure they can have ''fun'' but damn, I bet peoples hobbies are to lose or be bad at it I guess, asuming how many people defend that type of play.

[Ayer2015]

These types of discussions are funny when you think about it. Its not like people of either opposing opinion are going to change their minds about the subject, yet the pages keep increasing.
You run into lots of people of various skill levels when puging. I don't think I've ever had a person so bad that we couldn't finish a DF roulette outside of 24man raids, in which case it was many people. I sense a lot of exaggeration.

[akaneakki]

I sense a lot of exaggeration.

Put a group of 8 people from the weekly late 24 man raids and put them into v1s. Guess how far they get and how high the % is of the enrage.

[Jijifli]

These types of discussions are funny when you think about it. Its not like people of either opposing opinion are going to change their minds about the subject, yet the pages keep increasing.
You run into lots of people of various skill levels when puging. I don't think I've ever had a person so bad that we couldn't finish a DF roulette outside of 24man raids, in which case it was many people. I sense a lot of exaggeration.

I mostly posted this to vent. I honestly expect 0 change to come. Although I'm glad to see discussion on it at least.

Also, my extremes didn't always mean you couldn't clear it. My Snowcloak example we actually did kill the last boss, despite all 3 having huge issues that they couldn't handle. It was a very close cut though with multiple wipes and me having to go full try-hard on it. It's not common, not in the least, this vent was just over the times I've been getting it.

[Krotoan]

I think an in-game parser could help all but the single-button smasher right off the bat. Parsers aren't all about outgoing damage, ACT specifically has tabs for incoming damage, healing and threat to name just a few. If you can show a healer 'this is how much you healed, this is how much healing is generally required to clear this content' or a tank 'this is your threat generation, this is the threat generation of the dps that tanked most of the adds' that could most certainly help people understand their roles.

It's also concrete data to back up suggestions an experienced player gives in dungeons that the 'offending' player can see on their own screen to show them these suggestions aren't entirely without merit.

Parsers are invaluable for minmaxing, sure, but they're handy for everything actually.

The single button smasher IS the cruddy tank or healer though, the button just changes to the AOE heal or the flashiest Tank skill instead of the big numbered one for DPS. This is OP's concern. Someone who thinks this is how you play (SMASH DAT BUTTON!!) and anyone who suggests different is elitist or playing the game like a job.
These people aren't going to calmly sit there while you push numbers at them. They're going to yell "YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB" and then report YOU for harassment. They've never read a log, they have NO idea what their DPS or HPS or Threat generation looks like and wouldn't respond to those values even if presented with them.
I don't deny parsers are a valuable tool, but in this case, as in the people the OP is referring to, they are not helpful (and partially I don't think this thread will benefit from the pro/anti parser discussion that always comes out of that) for the type of player who learned incorrectly or refuses to take advice. I'm purposely going to avoid any discussion on the pro/cons and just say in this case it would not benefit anyone to bring it into this interaction.

[winsock]

Actually, my vent was on both. People who have extremely poor performance, levels of which a game should not ever allow without others carrying, AND not taking any advice, either ignoring it entirely, or attacking the person giving advice like it was of the greatest insult.

As for the BLM example you have, I'd rather a freeze BLM aoe spam over no aoe spam. Freeze on 7 targets is probably doing more than Blizzard 1.

I got to say, maybe i misinterpreted the purpose of your thread. Could you clarify something for me?

In your op, you say:
"I'm talking about the BLM that spams Thunder."
"The WAR that presses only Butcher's Block"

Why do you feel a BLM spamming Freeze is okay, especially considering the two examples above are not? Personally, if I am a grouped with a BLM that spams freeze and/or thunder, I would make an attempt at guiding them into a proper rotation.