Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Lammas]

So this morning I did leveling, got castrum abania, went through without a problem and got AST to 70 which makes me happy.
Come next patch I'm going to gear it up properly and probably start maining the healer.

Oh, and merry Christmas everyone!

[Anselmet]

That feeling when you do serious group after serious group to get a clear on Shin ex and you get a clear with a joke party full of drgs. I mean we are supposed to be dragon slayers but apparently if you tether a drg with enough eyes you summon nidhog bc my god did Shinryuu melt. Meta be damned that was the most fun I've ever had in this game.

The horror part is I got swapped in from drg to sch on our second try and I had to heal all four of them.

[LittleChickenNugget]

I just want to make an apology to the party I joined in PF. We were queuing up for 50/60 roulette and wouldn't you know it, my internet went out, it caused FFXIV to hit a lobby err that locked up my entire computer, I had to do a factory reset on the net. Needless to say, I was removed, no hard feelings obviously, but I just wanna say sorry for likely getting you guys killed in the pull that my internet crapped out. ;;

[Almandaragal]

Did you read what Rokku posted above this post of yours? That isn't the mindset he had. He simply did not want to deal with the consequences of speaking up at the time. IE: an impending argument or confrontation which in my experience happens a lot in this game if you question other players or speak up about gear or play style.

Have you ever had a friend who sometimes did or said minor insensitive things but you knew them well enough to know they don't do it on purpose and it is just how they are? You have arguments with friends sometimes, it happens, but sometimes when this friend crosses the line again you just say nothing because you just don't feel like arguing about it or starting a confrontation?

Sometimes you just don't feel like dealing with other people's problems and honestly you are expecting too much from an anonymous stranger in an MMO. They aren't obligated to deal with it if they don't want to.

You have a bit of a fair point, in that I summarized him a bit unfairly, so I apologize there. However, his mindset was still largely that. He mentioned that because of other, unrelated times where he had gotten crap reactions from problematic players, he wasn't going to give this one a chance. Is that his "right" to make that choice? Absolutely. Is that morally "right" to assume he was one of those problematic players, mentally label the BLM a problem, and assume that he was a problem without giving him a chance? Not in my opinion.

You bring up the best explanation for why someone might still go with just leaving of anyone rebutting the idea that just leaving was wrong. There are plenty of people who get uppity at the smallest of things in game. I've seen some, and some nights when people decide they need to pull for the tank who is waiting on CDs (and thus pulling normal, not huge) from the last big mob that almost wiped us, I get the temptation to be one of those people. But I don't, because I believe each situation/person deserves their own chance. Not everyone feels that way, and that's fine. But if one wants to talk about how they dealt with someone doing something dumb, but didn't even check to see if it was deliberately dumb, ignorantly dumb, or innocent forgetting, well... Less than fair, to me.

See, this is the difference between you and me.

You're obviously looking for justification and rationalization in the grand scheme of things, which I can respect.

I, and many others, have seen this shit so many times we've become jaded and cyncial to the point it's far easier to just leave than put up with the awkward conversation.

That said, the mindset of someone going into a dungeon undergeared (deliberately or no) is somehow better than the mindset of someone who doesn't want to encourage it? Care to elaborate on that point? If the majority of the low-skill playerbase actually gave half a shit about their gear, let alone rotations, then surely we wouldn't be having these conversations?

And I can respect that you're basically fed up with stupid, to put it simply. Differing opinions happen. I guess my point is, we don't know if there would be an argument or not, and without asking, we'll never know. If argument starts, you leave. An extra 30-60 seconds wasted. No argument? No time wasted, no stress.

As for the last bit, I kind of touched on this inadvertently above, but the point is that we don't know. If we don't ask, we don't know. If it was deliberate (as in, yes, they meant to bring i260, no, not light farming, just, that's what weapon they intended to use) that's a problem. If it was not deliberate (They didn't know that you can't light farm in SB, or just plain forgot to switch), then it was an "accident", and they are likely to have no problem switching to something more fair for the party. A refusal to switch at that point also becomes problematic.

So, I guess to sorta make it simple: If the player is willing to fix the undergeared situation by swapping, then I do not see it as a problem worth leaving over. We're human, mistakes happen. If they aren't, that is where the problem arises.

There are plenty of bad apples. There are also plenty of people learning. You know what the difference is between a "bad" tank that misses a mob and it's half dead before they grab aggro and me if I do it on DRK? I apologize, communicate, and make sure not to do it again. I find out what I did wrong in my unfamiliarity with said dungeon, and fix it. People have told me that I did great in a dungeon where I messed up a time or two, because we fixed the problems, whereas the same situations get complained about because the offender is silent and makes no effort to do better. I'm of the opinion that we should try to give people the chance to do better before we make assumptions. As far as I'm aware, there is nothing stopping a player leaving after the first "Nah, I'm good, I don't wanna change my staff" anymore than there was upon immediately seeing it. That's my qualm with that, not the idea that being undergeared is bad, because it generally is.

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That aside, had a nice, simple Vault run tonight. I really like that dungeon, and outside of the horrid lag from his fire circles/resulting explosions, it's quite fun to tank/do in general. Got to see the good SAM that helped us out on the Aery from the other night too, so that was cool. I'm liking how most of my experiences are the good kind lately. I'm starting to wonder how much of it is the server I'm on now.

[AxHell]

snip

*Whispers into your ear* : let the bodies hit the floor~~

[Crysten]

snip

Definitely some fair points - let me use my trial roulette experience this morning as an example of my own point as well.

I get Final Steps of Faith with two relatively undergeared players; a BLM and a SCH, both sprouts. In normal circumstances, I would be on the verge of clicking leave right away. With today being the only opportunity I have to cap my seals this week, I have to make an exception.

All seems to be going smoothly enough until the last phase, until the SCH runs away with the stack marker for Ahk Morn. Prompt wipe ensues.

Chalk this one up as a derp and explain the mechanics, fine.

Second attempt. The same thing happens with the BLM. Runs away with the stack marker, and the healers die again. Yay. Reiterate the mechanics but cynicism is kicking in at this point. Surely they can't screw this up a third time?

Third attempt. The SCH does it again. At this point it's getting stupid.

It's only on the fourth attempt that we kill it when someone who actually knows what they're doing gets targeted and even then, the SCH and BLM are still not stacking.

At the end of the day, conversations are great for diplomacy but are ultimately no guarantee you can cure the tidal wave of stupid I get on an almost daily basis when I'm not partying with friends. :/

[Miste]

Is that morally "right" to assume he was one of those problematic players, mentally label the BLM a problem, and assume that he was a problem without giving him a chance? Not in my opinion.

Isn't speaking of something being "morally" right going a bit too far when it is simply a case of someone leaving a DF duty? In my opinion you are turning it into being about the BLM instead of just someone not wanting to deal with a possible argument so just making the choice to leave the duty instead.

You aren't assuming they are going to be problematic, in fact you are attempting not to make assumptions at all about them since you don't know them. You have no idea how they will react. If you assume they will be nice they may not be, if you assume they will be rude they may not be, but the idea is that since you have no idea you simply weigh your own personal options to avoid the particular situation you wish to avoid at all costs.

No matter what you do in this case the result is unknown until it happens and some people like I said in my other post have anxiety issues when it comes to arguments or confrontations and will make the choice not to assume and just make their own personal choice to avoid the possibility since if you know nothing about someone then the possibilities about how they may behave are pretty endless. Even if you do know someone quite well people are sometimes unpredictable with their behavior. Someone could greet the dungeon group with a Hello! and a smiley face and a cat emoji and then later someone questions their gear or play style and suddenly they are hurling insults...you just never know.

So when I personally examine how I would deal with leaving in that case I am not making assumptions I am actually being neutral and only thinking of my own personal options to make sure I avoid what I don't feel like dealing with at the time. It isn't that I would assume the person is a jerk...I just wouldn't make any assumption at all and simply take my own feelings into account since, while I don't know that stranger, I definitely know myself.

I mean I always do my best in this game and try my hardest to respect others as much as possible without making too many sacrifices where I am becoming miserable and not having fun, but I think we all have to remember sometimes that FFXIV is just a game. Bringing morals into a simple case of someone leaving a duty and accepting the penalty for it, which happens tons of times daily in this game randomly for countless reasons we'll never know, is just taking it too seriously in my opinion.

I mean I understand where you are coming from, we shouldn't make negative assumptions and I agree we shouldn't, but it is also a bit naive to always make positive assumptions as well.


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As for stories....I've been leveling a character on Aether Data Center and two times recently I've gotten like...these princess healers who are impatient and pull mobs and get into petty arguments with the other party members then like they'll throw a tantrum and stop healing the party and let us wipe on bosses :/

Sigh I just don't know why I keep running into them recently. Two times in 2 days is kinda odd!

One of the examples was Brayflox Hard on RDM...healer immediately asks for big pulls when we load in. Tank obliges and then after first boss she starts complaining he isn't using any cooldowns. I saw him using them...anyway the tank answers and says he has been using them when they are available and especially with large pulls, but she refuses to listen and just wouldn't drop it even I pipped up and said I saw him using them so just drop it and continue, but she wouldn't have any of it.

She then purposefully wiped us on the second boss by refusing to heal us so we ended up having to kick her. A new healer joined within a minute so we finished easily, but still le sigh.

[Ameela]

Snip

True but I wouldn't put understanding mechanics and forgeting to equip your gear on the same level.

I once queued up to a dungeon wearing only a Lady Yukata top as a tank because I wanted to see how it looked, I thought I had it glamoured but turns out I was just in level 1 gear.
Thankfully the people I was playing with were kind enough to ask me if I meant to be wearing that, rather than just assuming I'm an idiot and leaving outright because of a brainlapse I wasn't even aware of.

[Tridus]

As for stories....I've been leveling a character on Aether Data Center and two times recently I've gotten like...these princess healers who are impatient and pull mobs and get into petty arguments with the other party members then like they'll throw a tantrum and stop healing the party and let us wipe on bosses :/

Sigh I just don't know why I keep running into them recently. Two times in 2 days is kinda odd!

Makes me glad I'm usually either heailng, or have Moro healing. We can't run into that person, and if we do, we have the votes to kick them. That's just awful.

[MoroMurasaki]

Makes me glad I'm usually either heailng, or have Moro healing. We can't run into that person, and if we do, we have the votes to kick them. That's just awful.

I read Miste's post and came down here to post basically this exact reply. Appreciate you too buddy!

Miste! Remember you have friends on Aether, if you need a healer feel free to let us know. Much as I enjoy your posts in this thread I'd certainly like to mitigate the bad for you if I can.

As to my story... I am a noob. I tanked Bismark for the second time and halfway through having some enmity issues realized I had been making my poor healers heal me in Deliverance the entire time. Up side was my adds died extra quick, down side my healers were both so low on mp when the burn phases happened they didn't get to contribute DPS. Selfish tank is selfish ;-;