Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[Llugen]

@Ellie: And this is why I hate "quote reposts"; they become literal books.

1. Nowhere is necromancy mentioned... yet. The developers could come out tomorrow and mention it. This is exactly what I'm trying to say.

2. If you are unable to pay attention to your surroundings while playing a job, I'm not sure what to say. I mean no disrespect, but you can't assume your level of skill or any one level of skill for all players in the game.

3. Most of us at high-end are vehemently against "pure DPS" classes as there is really no such thing. Utility IS damage. Embolden is damage, Battle Litany is damage, Devotion/Radiant Shield is damage, it's all damage. Pure damage classes cannot bring the same damage that a class buffing seven other players can bring, and if they could, it'd be broken.

Furthermore the precedent for "pure DPS" started in 4.0; prior to that, BLM still had access to Eye for an Eye, Virus, Apocatastasis (!), and Manawall/Manaward, which could be used to soak double tank busters. They only decided to strip it of its niche with 4.0 launch, so to say that it's always been "pure damage" in this game is weak.

4. Yes it is. Re-read my last point.

5. If I were tasked with buffing red mage I'd bump up embolden and make it also affect magic damage. It should be some of the lowest damage in the game. This thread, however, is not about RDM and damage, so that's a discussion best saved for another.

Just because you in particular did not use Apocatastasis does not mean that it wasn't used. It was extremely useful during Incinerating Heat, during Akh Morn, during ANY magical tank buster as a cooldown for the tank. Furthermore, it could spot-rescue a player who took extra damage or had weakness before big hits like Mega Holy or Gigaflare. Again, consider that just because you or other players don't use it does NOT mean that NO ONE used it (Shisui AFKers).

6. One example of BLM having access to raise is all it takes to disprove the standard model, and I've given two. I've already satisfied the burden of proof whether you like it or not.

7. Raise is not a "distraction" from bigger issues because those other issues also need to be addressed. How many more times do I have to say this to get it through people's heads in this thread?! No one has EVER said that Raise is the ONLY thing that BLM needs to be good again.

8. Good work, keep up the prog. I'd suggest watching BLM POV videos for cooldowns management and planning, always helps me to see how the world firsts are doing things.

9. I don't see where you see that this argument is weak. Your modus operandi of "we're pure damage get over it" is short-sighted and it's NEW FOR THIS GAME, contrary to what you believe. You're preaching this like it's been the case the whole time when it hasn't. Stop pretending.

10. Keep telling me that my arguments are terrible without actually critiquing, it definitely somehow makes you look better than me in this thread.

11. You do not get to decide "what is Black Mage". They (the developers) do, and more importantly, they get to decide what it is in FFXIV. Tomorrow they could announce that in 5.0 they're changing the class to have the spells transfer into staff smacks similar to red mage combos, and it would be valid because it is their game (even if we'd all hate it, which, we would).

12. THERE IS NO COMPARISON (for your SAM with cure and MCH tank and WHM with Midare) BECAUSE THOSE ROLES DO NOT INCLUDE THOSE SKILLS. THE CASTER ROLE DOES INCLUDE RAISE ON EVERY JOB BUT ONE. HOW IS THIS CONFUSING?! Say it again slowly to yourself if it helps. This is sheer expository/definition information.

13. Not only is role balance not a myth, it is 100% necessary for jobs to be taken seriously. Note how BLM is not taken seriously right now. I can definitively say that you are the one that needs to change your mind on this front.

14. Nothing about it is "counterintuitive", you just think it is because you can't wrap your mind around the importance of class balance, as evidenced by your rebuttle to my response.

15. Please say some more that nothing in the lore has anything to justify raising (when it does), and again they could come out tomorrow and fix it. Stop using this as an argument. The whole point of this thread is that there needs to be a change, which means a CHANGE. A = A. Nothing more simply can be said about it.

16. Sigh. Yes, certainly I'm the one that doesn't understand the job.


I've said this exact statement before in at least two posts: if they increase BLM damage even by 30% (!) it still makes more sense to take RDM/SMN for progression, because the logic becomes "ok, so BLM is strong now but it's still weak in movement and has no recovery tools, so let's just take RDM/SMN for progression and come back to BLM afterward" and that's exactly what we do not want. I played RDM for a grueling two months in raid before I ragequit it, and my group was STILL pissed at me for changing. Just because you personally don't feel "the pressure" to play a more useful/synergistic class does not mean that others do not feel that pressure. Furthermore, this is why balance must be considered most strongly for the high-end of play, because such changes do not even concern Shisui AFKers.

More than just my group members being angry, in my own head it makes the most sense to play RDM/SMN as well. Why should I switch to a less effective class, even if it's the one that I want to play? Seven people are suffering because of my decision to play my main job. That should never be ok, I should never be feeling guilty for my decision in my role. This is why the attention to class balance is so important, and why BLM needs tools to be at least a little less useless than it currently is for progression. (again just because you personally don't feel guilty about it does not mean that others don't)


Important also to note, watch just how many people come in this thread without even reading any of it (or worse, without saying that they DIDN'T read it) and just say "no rez on blm plz moar damage dn't want yoship sed". So you tell me, who has thought out the job more, me, or them?



Once more, consider that we are hoping (praying) that BLM will be getting more access to procs or faster cast times to avoid so much clipping, and here your entire argument of "freedom of casting" is made moot (which it already is, since off-GCDs can be weaved after fastcast Blizzard/Fire III with very little clipping). Further, at no MP cost, it could be used either in Astral or in Umbral at no detriment.

You've said, again, the same things over and over again that mean almost nothing ("focus", doesn't fit with the job, doesn't need it/adds nothing of value, raise won't fix the job) and I've pointed out again and again exactly how you're wrong (if you can't focus you have other problems, it CAN fit with the job with the right lore shaping by the developers, the ROLE needs it for balance/adds value to progression, no one ever said that raise alone was all that was needed). Unless you can really come up with something different to say about this at the moment, your argument is basically over. You just refuse to read/understand what I have to say, and chalk it up somehow to my "lack of understanding" and even better "respect" of the game and of the job.






@Kabooa: I do not call "everyone who disagrees with me" unimaginative; you should basically disregard prism's troll posts. Your first statement about people not realizing that a differently designed skill can have the same function as raise is exactly why I've said that to people. Thank you for standing up for it.


@Tiny: I think it would be fine for them to change Phoenix Down but that doesn't adjust the caster role imbalance regarding raise. Personally I think that Phoenix down should be on a party-wide cooldown so you can collectively use one every 390 seconds, but we will see if that's something they are interested in.



@Gait: BLM may only need a tiny DAMAGE adjustment, but it could really use a mobility improvement and a utility/tools improvement as well, which is why we're here. The length of the recast would balance any "pettiness", and it's still just as fast and almost as inconsequential to do one rez-dispense as it would be to use this off-GCD (which I can defintively say as a RDM "main" for deltascape progression). The fact that it doesn't require MP is because of the infinite Umbral Ice argument. You say there's no "room" for it in the kit, but this is meaningless, there's room for anything they damn well please. Freeze also needs to be addressed, refer to my OP about how I've suggested it should be changed. The downside is that you get only one per 180s (or hell, make it 300s if you wish). Save it for when both healers die or when a tank dies right before a swap. You still have healers to raise, just like if you were on RDM, it's just that BLM can't help at all as it is currently, and that's a problem.

If they did decide to remove battle resurrection from SMN but keep it on SCH, that would also fix the problem of role balance, since that would mean that only one class has access to the "white magic" that is Raise, and that is RDM. However, the CLASS of RDM would be still really overpowered, as it can still "dispense", so I might suggest removing Verraise from dualcast (and making its cast time and MP cost akin to the healers' Raise spells), AND removing it from SMN. Verraise could then still be swiftcast (like SMN currently), but not dispensed.



@Dualgunner: Thanks for standing up for me, kinda. The only thing that I see that is wrong with our "communication" of ideas is that I can't seem to get through with my undeniable refutes, making it seem like I'm saying "the same things" and "pleading misunderstood". Hopefully this post and summary will wrap up those misconceptions.


@Strago: If they wanted to put off-GCD raise in the caster role pool I wouldn't even be mad about it, and remove the GCD ones from the others. Putting Raise in the healer one, though, would result in situations where healers "didn't bother bringing it", and it's basically expected of them (plus, 5 slots for healers is already pretty low, so filling another one with raise would be even worse).



Also, Merry Christmas everyone! \o/

[LeeraSorlan]

giving me a raiise on BLM is like giving me a skill ill never use.Forget that, i barely use raise on SMN and RDM as it is, very few exceptions are if both healers die, im not about to waste my time ressing if a healer can do it for me.


Give BLM a raise and ill never use it, ever. like id not even put it on my hotbar and forget it exist, simply because im not playing a dps job so i can raise, im playing it to dps, if im on blm and both healers die and i can raise, well RIP then cos id rather wipe. in no situation does BLM need a raise, in no situation does SMN or RDM need the raise taken away.


Forget about lore, lore can be changed and made up, lore is not set in stone, lore is dependant on whatever the fk the devs wants the lore to be. that being said, no. raise on BLM is pointless. Raise as a utility on DPS jobs isnt overpowered so theres no need to take it away

[Tussin]

it goes against the game, in no instance has a black mage had a rez spell. white mages/red mages/summoners have.... if you want a rez so bad play any of the above

[Llugen]

Here's another one!

I think we're up to ~9 since I started counting back on page 20 or so

[EllieShadeflare]

@Ellie: And this is why I hate "quote reposts"; they become literal books.

1. Nowhere is necromancy mentioned... yet. The developers could come out tomorrow and mention it. This is exactly what I'm trying to say.

That's like saying that in Lord of the Rings, Space Marines exist. They're not mentioned... YET, but NewLine Cinema or EA could reference it in the next piece of media.

Sticking to the lore is pretty much neccessary to a game, and saying "But MAAAAAAYBE" isn't gonna help much. Especially if you're trying to add something to a class that it's done its very best to show why adding such thing is a bad idea.

2. If you are unable to pay attention to your surroundings while playing a job, I'm not sure what to say. I mean no disrespect, but you can't assume your level of skill or any one level of skill for all players in the game.

Oh hey, it's almost like you refused to understand what I wrote! Just as you basically whinge about people "not understanding" you! This is what I've said!

It's still an extra button which clashes again with the tunnel vision of the class. The player is paying attention to their surroundings first, their buttons second, their procs third, and anything else is utterly optional. Adding one more thing to keep track of is a terrible idea in all forms. I don't know why you're trying to turn Black Mage busy.

So, let's break down what I wrote:

1. It's an extra button which clashes with the tunnel vision of the class: By tunnel vision, a Black Mage is focusing on staying alive and dealing damage. That's basically it.

2. Paying attention to their surroundings is the most important thing to a Black Mage (or any class for that matter). You should know this.

3. Look at classes which have added clunkiness to their toolset. Monk has been all but abandoned by the majority of its playerbase, Summoner was undervalued until some time before 4.1, where it was discovered that it COULD deal impressive damage, but the rework only beefed it up further.

3. Most of us at high-end are vehemently against "pure DPS" classes as there is really no such thing. Utility IS damage. Embolden is damage, Battle Litany is damage, Devotion/Radiant Shield is damage, it's all damage. Pure damage classes cannot bring the same damage that a class buffing seven other players can bring, and if they could, it'd be broken.

You keep saying that, but it's not true. A pure DPS class would benefit from other players' utility a lot more than a good chunk of other DPSes, due to its damage already being higher than anyone else's. If we're gonna talk Foe's Requiem as an example, Fire IV's 494 potency times 1.03 is 509, versus say, a Ninja's 408 potency from Aeolian Edge from the back times 1.03 is 420.

Giving Black Mage the damage it needs to compare to utility class contribution is basically all it really needs to be as strong as it needs to be.

Furthermore the precedent for "pure DPS" started in 4.0; prior to that, BLM still had access to Eye for an Eye, Virus, Apocatastasis (!), and Manawall/Manaward, which could be used to soak double tank busters. They only decided to strip it of its niche with 4.0 launch, so to say that it's always been "pure damage" in this game is weak.

1. You can't call Cross-Class skills part of the dedicated Black Mage kit. That's stupid.

2. E4E is still a distraction from the boss/target.

3. Apocatastasis is such a niche ability that it may as well not exist, especially on a Black Mage.

4. Virus was never going to be used by a Black Mage, mostly because either a healer (especially Scholar) or a Summoner will use it first. Virus for Black Mage was so weak, that you lose out on half of the effects... and also lock other Virus users out of using it without any reward.

5. You can't count Manawall/Manaward as a "utility". That's Black Mage's form of mitigation, in the same way that Titan-egi and Vercure are Summoner and Red Mage's forms of mitigation. Granted, Titan-egi doesn't help in group situations, but whatever.

Black Mage's damage was one of the highest in the game, and its lack of utility has made it a pure DPS job, since day 1 of 2.0.

4. Yes it is. Re-read my last point.

If all you're gonna do is say "re-read my last point," then you have no argument.

5. If I were tasked with buffing red mage I'd bump up embolden and make it also affect magic damage. It should be some of the lowest damage in the game. This thread, however, is not about RDM and damage, so that's a discussion best saved for another.

Embolden needs to affect damage, but considering Red Mage provides little to no contribution to a party, between rezes or Embolden's being bad, its damage could certainly use adjustment.

Just because you in particular did not use Apocatastasis does not mean that it wasn't used. It was extremely useful during Incinerating Heat, during Akh Morn, during ANY magical tank buster as a cooldown for the tank. Furthermore, it could spot-rescue a player who took extra damage or had weakness before big hits like Mega Holy or Gigaflare.

Right, but consider this: It's more likely to be used by either a Summoner (which was already more of a support class than Black Mage) or a Healer and like Virus, can only be applied once per 30seconds. A Black Mage is more likley to just... focus their damage instead of using a situational utility that would be handled by a healer or Summoner.

Also, 2.x BLM could much better afford to lose some of their attention since we didn't have Enochian or Fire IV to worry about with.

Again, consider that just because you or other players don't use it does NOT mean that NO ONE used it (Shisui AFKers).

Wait, hold on, what was that you said earlier?

I mean no disrespect, but you can't assume your level of skill or any one level of skill for all players in the game.

Hypocrisy. Moving on.

6. One example of BLM having access to raise is all it takes to disprove the standard model, and I've given two. I've already satisfied the burden of proof whether you like it or not.

Yeah, no. I call shenanigans. That's like saying that Paladin should be DPS because Cecil could inflict serious amounts of damage in FFIV. Or saying that Dragoons need Blue Magic because Kimahri. Your examples have been torn apart like the shoddy excuses they are, because:

1. As mentioned REPEATEDLY, Lulu's usage of Raise requires her to dip into another character's moveset to obtain. This is like saying that White Mage should get Meteor because they could use it in Final Fantasy V. Wait, no. I have a better example. White Mage should get Flare because Yuna can get it from Lulu, Samurai should get Regen because Auron could get it from Yuna, and Black Mage should also get Holy because Lulu could get it from Yuna.

2. There is no set Black or White Mages in Crystal Chronicles. There is no set Black or White Magic in Crystal Chronicles.

3. Phoenix Downs are not a skill, they're an item.

7. Raise is not a "distraction" from bigger issues because those other issues also need to be addressed. How many more times do I have to say this to get it through people's heads in this thread?! No one has EVER said that Raise is the ONLY thing that BLM needs to be good again.

You're acting as if Raise is an important issue, even going so far as to say that the lack of Raise is a major detriment to Black Mage's place as a Caster. And you're defending it to the death as if it's the biggest issue for Black Mage. I don't think that the impression you and other defenders have given really help you case.

9. I don't see where you see that this argument is weak. Your modus operandi of "we're pure damage get over it" is short-sighted and it's NEW FOR THIS GAME, contrary to what you believe. You're preaching this like it's been the case the whole time when it hasn't. Stop pretending.

Um, it's been a thing since 2.0, and definitely has been codified in 3.0. Certainly, BLM had Apocatastasis in 2.x and 3.x, but it's been a situational ability.

10. Keep telling me that my arguments are terrible without actually critiquing, it definitely somehow makes you look better than me in this thread.

I... did? I can see you're an utter hypocrite though, so it's not gonna be worth showing how I've actually pointed out your idea's problems and flaws.

11. You do not get to decide "what is Black Mage". They (the developers) do, and more importantly, they get to decide what it is in FFXIV. Tomorrow they could announce that in 5.0 they're changing the class to have the spells transfer into staff smacks similar to red mage combos, and it would be valid because it is their game (even if we'd all hate it, which, we would).

Yeah, and the Developers have basically decided that BLM is pure DPS and decided to fully focus on that.

12. THERE IS NO COMPARISON (for your SAM with cure and MCH tank and WHM with Midare) BECAUSE THOSE ROLES DO NOT INCLUDE THOSE SKILLS. THE CASTER ROLE DOES INCLUDE RAISE ON EVERY JOB BUT ONE. HOW IS THIS CONFUSING?! Say it again slowly to yourself if it helps. This is sheer expository/definition information.

Are... are you seriously still going on about Samurai with cure, even though I've stopped that? Um. Okay. Wow. You kinda disqualify yourself from being taken seriously when you claim people not understanding you. I used a better example with Shadewalker and Trick Attack, but you seem to miss those. At least you're showing that you're not being honest!

13. Not only is role balance not a myth, it is 100% necessary for jobs to be taken seriously. Note how BLM is not taken seriously right now. I can definitively say that you are the one that needs to change your mind on this front.

And... for what reason do you think that BLM isn't taken seriously? Do you think that it's because:

A. Lack of Raise

B. Lack of mobility

C. Lack of damage versus its more supportive counterpart, Summoner

Seriously, I even pointed out that other examples utilizing other roles (Warrior not having MP based skills, Samurai, Ninja, Monk and Dragoon all working differently)

14. Nothing about it is "counterintuitive", you just think it is because you can't wrap your mind around the importance of class balance, as evidenced by your rebuttle to my response.

Yeah, I can think about class balance. I don't think Rez for Black Mage has anything to do with it, though.

When I think about the problems Black Mage has with class balance, I think of a lack of mobility and a lack of damage versus Summoner and Red Mage being too weak for its own good versus literally every other class in the game.

15. Please say some more that nothing in the lore has anything to justify raising (when it does), and again they could come out tomorrow and fix it. Stop using this as an argument. The whole point of this thread is that there needs to be a change, which means a CHANGE. A = A. Nothing more simply can be said about it.

Your change isn't a change that Black Mage needs. And please show something in the lore that could support Black Mage, as we learn it, having Raise. I'm using the lore as is, because it's what we have and it's lore that's been set in stone.

16. Sigh. Yes, certainly I'm the one that doesn't understand the job.

From what it sounds like, yes. You really, really don't. Both on a lore standpoint and a gameplay standpoint.

I've said this exact statement before in at least two posts: if they increase BLM damage even by 30% (!) it still makes more sense to take RDM/SMN for progression, because the logic becomes "ok, so BLM is strong now but it's still weak in movement and has no recovery tools, so let's just take RDM/SMN for progression and come back to BLM afterward" and that's exactly what we do not want. I played RDM for a grueling two months in raid before I ragequit it, and my group was STILL pissed at me for changing. Just because you personally don't feel "the pressure" to play a more useful/synergistic class does not mean that others do not feel that pressure. Furthermore, this is why balance must be considered most strongly for the high-end of play, because such changes do not even concern Shisui AFKers.

Stop playing with terrible people then. If they're going to be angry at you for what class you're playing, then I'm sorry, you're playing with the wrong people.

More than just my group members being angry, in my own head it makes the most sense to play RDM/SMN as well. Why should I switch to a less effective class, even if it's the one that I want to play? Seven people are suffering because of my decision to play my main job. That should never be ok, I should never be feeling guilty for my decision in my role. This is why the attention to class balance is so important, and why BLM needs tools to be at least a little less useless than it currently is for progression. (again just because you personally don't feel guilty about it does not mean that others don't)

Except Raise won't solve the class balance. To many people, it'd be a useless button that'd never be touched, since it distracts from damage.

As Gait pointed out, the Caster call card is "cast bar on a DPS". Not Raise.

Also, if you let other people make you feel guilty, well, the first step is to stop associating with terrible horrible people. I mean, it sounds like you're associating with the kinds of people that makes Overwatch, MOBAs and similar sorts of games hated by people on the outside looking in.

Important also to note, watch just how many people come in this thread without even reading any of it (or worse, without saying that they DIDN'T read it) and just say "no rez on blm plz moar damage dn't want yoship sed". So you tell me, who has thought out the job more, me, or them?

Iunno. I've come up with solutions that didn't boil down to "gib rez because other casters has it". And honestly?

Once more, consider that we are hoping (praying) that BLM will be getting more access to procs or faster cast times to avoid so much clipping, and here your entire argument of "freedom of casting" is made moot (which it already is, since off-GCDs can be weaved after fastcast Blizzard/Fire III with very little clipping). Further, at no MP cost, it could be used either in Astral or in Umbral at no detriment.

And it'd still be a useless button nobody or few people would use, just like Apocastasis or Cross Class support buttons were.

You've said, again, the same things over and over again that mean almost nothing ("focus", doesn't fit with the job, doesn't need it/adds nothing of value, raise won't fix the job) and I've pointed out again and again exactly how you're wrong (if you can't focus you have other problems, it CAN fit with the job with the right lore shaping by the developers, the ROLE needs it for balance/adds value to progression, no one ever said that raise alone was all that was needed). Unless you can really come up with something different to say about this at the moment, your argument is basically over. You just refuse to read/understand what I have to say, and chalk it up somehow to my "lack of understanding" and even better "respect" of the game and of the job.

You basically amount to "ignore all criticism for I am right about everything." I've shown you why your arguments are wrong, I've explained my positions, I've explained everything that I could, but you refuse to listen and will put yourself into a victim complex when people get fed up with your stubborness.

I'm tired of this discussion and I'm tired of you. You added nothing new to your argument and continuously fellate yourself to how "smart" or "untouchable" your arguments are, especially later in this post and it honestly shows just how disingenuous you are.

[Karshan]

Just because some are terrible at using support doesn't mean BLM shouldn't be given support tools. I mean a tank death could be prevented with apocastasis but wasn't because the guy was too busy casting a F4 ? You bet your *** the guy is gonna hear from me. And it's not a question of horrible person, 8 man team job here and everyone better do his f***ing part.

Ajout raise : Between a BLM distracted for 2 seconds and a DPS lying on the ground for 15 seconds more than it should because it's a little hot for healers at that moment, what do you guys think is a greater DPS loss ? Admit it you just don't want to bother watching team info live à SMN or ROM and keep the tunnel vision and comfort

[EllieShadeflare]

Just because some are terrible at using support doesn't mean BLM shouldn't be given support tools.

Black Mage just isn't a good class to put support tools on, because as we've seen from 2.0 to now, most of the time they're buttons that nobody ever uses (who ever used Ennervate? Or Sleep?) or are especially problematic (Apocatastasis also happens to have a animation lock, didn't you know?). Now that jobs that don't have to put as much attention on their base mechanics can use Apocatastasis too, why would Black Mages need to use it?

I mean a tank death could be prevented with apocastasis but wasn't because the guy was too busy casting a F4 ? You bet your *** the guy is gonna hear from me. And it's not a question of horrible person, 8 man team job here and everyone better do his f***ing part.

Oh no, you misunderstand my point about "terrible people". In the post, Llugen stated that their static basically got pissed at them for changing classes. If someone is going to be a jerk over what class you play, then they're a terrible person and shouldn't be associated with.

Ajout raise : Between a BLM distracted for 2 seconds and a DPS lying on the ground for 15 seconds more than it should because it's a little hot for healers at that moment, what do you guys think is a greater DPS loss ? Admit it you just don't want to bother watching team info live à SMN or ROM and keep the tunnel vision and comfort

As a person who's been on the receiving end of not being rez'd, I can assure that most of the time that a person dies, it's that person's fault. Because Black Mage really can't focus on much else, and losing focus means the loss of Enochian.

Not to mention, Raise really doesn't fit the Black Mage's gameplay style nor the lore of the class (on a series wide standard nor in a within FFXIV standard).

[Llugen]

Idk, it's like talking to a wall, to be honest. I think I'm just done at this point. I'm the disingenuous one for suggesting a fix that this person doesn't like, despite clearly explaining my refutes numerous times. Thanks for backing me up Karshan, but it's pretty clear that this person isn't interested in considering anything outside of what they can understand, and has zero interest in considering how balance affects the game outside of their own little bubble. Tragic, really.


Oh, and @Leera, I'm glad that, if given a raise, you would rather just wipe the group than actually support your team by using it, despite it requiring negligible time to use under my proposal. Definitely some high level team coordination/playing, there.



Merry Christmas, people.

[Llugen]

Obviously you haven't read my responses either, because not only do my arguments "stand", they are much more valid for a multiplayer game where people are expected to work together vs. a single player game where it'd be perfectly fine for there to be a class that offers no support since there's only one player.

Please stop harassing/trolling my posts.

[GaitSpiff]

I don't think anyone's harassing or trolling here save one Llugen, and that's the one pointing fingers. Several people have pointed out the fallacies in your arguments and your inaccuracies or points of poor logic, and not much more. Your "refutal" to me just stuck to your guns about the oGCD without giving what i asked for: a solid, actual downside like the other casters have for raising. Oh, and your argument of "people afk in Limsa wearing Shisui armor" is rather offensive because of the huge swing from your supposed "Amazing players who raid" to what the rest of the playerbase does.

Here's another reason, aside from the ones already given, as to why your "Necromancy" argument for the raise is full of holes: there is exactly one encountered "Necromancer" in the entirety of FFXIV so far, and that individual is the 100th boss of the Palace of the Dead. His individuals raised were able to maintain the exact level of power they'd possessed prior to death, meaning that a necromancy-inspired raise (which is not Black Magic, but instead more Thaumaturgy and Alchemy related) would have no weakness debuff, and thereby imbalance the game. Let's go further: the people raised by necromancy have no will of their own, nor control of their bodies anymore even despite still possessing their souls, so a necromancy raise would then require the raiser to control the individual themselves, which in the case of multiple raises would mean that caster better have a few means of control or a multibox ready, or they're going to be unable to do much. Finally: those raised by necromancy, once felled, cannot be raised again, so basing it on necromancy would be even worse because should the raise target die a second time (which is fairly easy if not paying attention as much while raising) not even the healers could pull their sorry butt off the ground and you'd be short a player the rest of the fight, forcing a wipe most likely.

Now for your argument of why the dev and lore team would(n't actually) change the lore of Black Mage just for something they do not need currently: Reason 1) YoshiP is a BLM main and has loved the class since he first played Final Fantasy, he wouldn't let any changes go through that would change the core tenets of Black Mage; Reason 2) as Ellie and several others pointed out, homogenization of jobs wouldn't help in this regard, as large swaths of the Final fantasy playerbase like specific jobs for their unique sense of identity and playstyle, and changing the core identity of a job would, in fact alienate a good number of people; Reason 3) With three core stories to the job already detailing why Black Magic must be kept purely to itself and not take in aspects of outside styles, even if similar, such as Void Magic and the like, a turn around would require a rewrite of every single quest post job crystal acquisition, and doing so for the sake of a single, unimportant, and mostly unneeded spell or cooldown would be a waste of man-hours.

Finally, a refutal of your idea for the raise being an off Global Cooldown: simply put, a cooldown isn't going to balance the idea of bringing someone back mid-fight, and the only example of an instance in FFXIV so far of a cooldown being on anything to do with raising aside from Swiftcast (which is a general utility and not a raise-specific one) is on that of the Phoenix Down, an item which crucially cannot be used in combat. There would be no downsides to using it (unless you went with the necromantic option which I thoroughly refuted above and has no ties to black magic aside from Thaumaturgy, which if you actually read brings two other fairly major balance issues) compared to that of any other job aside from "oh no, prohibitive cooldown, whatever will I do?" As I'd stated before, other people and jobs would complain as to why their raise wasn't as good or at least free. There NEEDS to be a proper COST for the raise, and here, since you haven't given any imaginative ideas as to how it could be balanced and keep claiming a need for people to "have imagination", let's give some reasonable examples that already exist in the Black Mage kit that could be used as a proper cost to raise another person: a percent of the Black Mage's maximum health is taken in exchange for the action, like with Convert, such that you are sacrificing your well-being to restore that of the other player; you exhaust your mana reserves, like with Flare, because you are using a spell otherwise completely outside the sphere of Black Magic and it takes its toll on you; it has to be targeted by hand, like with Freeze, and you use a scaling amount of mana based on how many allies are in the radius of the area you've selected. There are three actually "imaginative" and at the same time GROUNDED ideas that aren't as unimaginitive as a simple off-Global Cooldown.