Lets talk about the social aspects....

[Shurrikhan]

snip

Sigh. Feels like it's been since ARR dungeons since I've had interactions like this, apart from maybe one Bartam or Doma run, but it wasn't even to such an extent that I can remember which of the two.

[Infindox]

Idk, I find it extremely easy to talk to people on my server. I can go to Limsa and find many old and new players chitchatting (or currently playing Christmas music with Bard!). Usually I get people talking to me just because they like a glamour I have. I also tend to joke around with the people who I always see on hunts.

Only time I feel is antisocial is dungeons. I can't begin to count how many times a run was boring because no one said a word. Today I got Antitower in my 50/60 Roulette and only two party lines were said: Yo/ and Tyfp!, both from me. Usually I WANT to have newbies in my parties so there is at least some chatter there, or joking if we do something stupid.

As someone who has had no interest in MMOs (and I still don't) becides this game, I can't compare this to other ones, but I do enjoy the company I get.

[Vidu]

It divides FCs for one. You end up getting cliques based on who uses it and who doesn't, and it tends to make normal FC chat very silent. Also its hard to split focus since you might text chat with it or swap files, so you often keep the Discord window/app open over in game stuff.

As soon as a group reaches a certain size, it will always divide into cliques - using discord or not might not just be another criteria. Also: Discord is free, you can use it on your phone if you're on Ps4, so there is no reason not to use it - unless you dont want to for personal reasons, but thats on you.

I get that you dont like it, but for a lot of people it makes communicating with their FC easier and more convient... so it enhances social aspects of the game, even outside of the game - at least for me.
If you'd rather use the FC-chat ingame, you can always look for like minded people to form an FC with

[Camiie]

Dungeons are usually run at a fast pace, and if I'm chatting then my performance is going to suffer. Personally I'm just not good enough to play to my fullest while also typing pithy comments. Dunno about the rest of you.

[Infindox]

Dungeons are usually run at a fast pace, and if I'm chatting then my performance is going to suffer. Personally I'm just not good enough to play to my fullest while also typing pithy comments. Dunno about the rest of you.

I get it. Its hard for me to type at all because I'm on ps4 and on a controller. But just saying "hey" at the beginning and nothing else is better then silence. Idk, that's just a pet peeve of mine, don't mind me.

[Iscah]

There's definitely not enough time to type during the average dungeon run! I'll type "hello" at the start and clap at the end, but beyond that... if people are already talking (in English!) I'll join in if I can get a chance, but I don't start conversations 'just because' and I certainly don't want to be the person standing there chatting instead of fighting the monsters! (One person tried to have a conversation with me mid-battle once - I felt obliged to respond so I was trying to type with one hand and hold the controller and do my melee combo with the other. Neither went well. Eventually I told them I'd talk at the end of the dungeon, but they left as soon as the boss was defeated.)

But we run so many dungeons in the course of the game, you can't expect every one to be a social event. You get the occasional ones though, and that makes them memorable!

Out of battle I've gotten into a few conversations, usually started by the other person because I'm naturally socially-awkward and don't tend to initiate conversation in the real world either. One of those led to me getting invited to their FC, which is now my main social interaction for the game.

[Big_Panda]

When your lv 60 dps gets into Sastasha for the millionth time, every second they spend typing is a second they can use to run to the next pull and kill it

I respect that wish and I only type when I auto-run between pulls

Of course, having a keyboard and controller helps

[Kaethra]

So, as the game has progressed in age I personally find people have become very anti-social; groups rarely converse in DF roulettes anymore, and on my server at least hubs rarely have open conversation occurring either.

Why bother playing an MMO if there is minimal social interaction?

This is a complicated issue that is both social-cultural as well as design and engine based.

On a cultural level, the general MMO community has veared towards less and less social interaction. This is mostly due to generational issues happening outside of the game. People are just more focused on themselves than others. This isn't to say people are more selfish. Emphasis is being put on individual achievement in life rather than family or organization. The reasons behind this go way beyond not just what this thread is about, but these entire forums, so I will refrain from going further.

The general design of the game hurts these aspects too, to some degree. In the way the dungeons are designed, the tank pulls a group or two or three, DPS and Healer AOE them down, Healer heals as needed, and rinse and repeat till boss. Boss mechanics differ from boss to boss but still DPS DPS, Healers Heal, Tanks keep stuff on them. Do all that two more times, collect tomestones and you part ways, never to see each other again normally.

Is this bad design? No.. actually the design is working well. Too well in fact that the average player does exactly what I said above as a routine. The issue comes in is when its routine, there's no need to talk beforehand. Everyone knows what they need to do. Hell some of us not only have class rotations, but DUNGEON Rotations.. where we use abilities at the same phase of the same pull in each dungeon. Sometimes even altering it so your big stuff is ready on a boss.

And then this ties right into the last part. The game engine. The Global Cooldown is 2.5s. Missing an ability is a little more punishing in FFXIV than other games where the GCD is shorter. That also leaves alot less time for talking as everyone is crunching out their abilities. Also the frequency of abilities is one or more every GCD,. Whereas in WoW and EQ it wasn't uncommon to see 6-10 seconds between ability uses, that did allow for some time to chat or coordinate.

Couple all this together and you have the state of the game you see now.

The entire game isn't like this however. Anyone who runs Savage content knows there is a ton of socialization going on. Even the easiest content. Alte Droit (Omega Deltascape V1.0) for example has some coordination before the fight. That's something you don't see in most of the content that comes before. Some think that makes most of the DF content unsuitable for that level of play. Which is simply false.

When I played WoW in some of the earlier years, it wasn't uncommon for group marks to be designated for multiple types of Crowd Control. Sheep, Sap, Trap, Sleep, Banish, ect were all used in many groups and coordinated ahead of pulls.

In EQ your group make up required a bit of group discussion to determine who was buffing who with what, who was debuffing, and what roles were being performed. In those really early days, if you had a Warrior, Paladin, Druid, Shaman, Bard, and Mage in the group.. it wasn't clear who was tanking, healing, or buffing. Just using that group make up as an example... you could have the Warrior DPS, Paladin Tank, Druid heal, Shaman debuff, Bard buff, Mage keep up damage shield. Warrior could also Tank, Paladin DPS, Druid DPS and buff, Bard charms, Shaman DPS, and Mage still DS's (they really should as they have the best). And there's a few other combinations involved there as well. As you can gather.. you put a group together and you've got to figure what is doing what.

You don't see that in FFXIV where jobs can do multiple roles. They do one role, and are more or less equal to the task despite who they are grouped with. No discussion needed. If you'red matched with a PAL/WAR/DRK they tank. If WHM/SCH/AST they heal. If anything else, they DPS. No discussion will change that for DF content. There's a few things for savage content.. but that's just not the norm.

Taking out DF won't change that fact. Tanks Tank, Healers Heal, and DPS DPS. Whether you're matched by a computer or you match yourselves in a chat channel. You're still not going to talk once in. You know your role and you do it. I doubt we'll see this change. It would require a big shift in design philosophy and balance that is.. well.. Daybreak/SOE/Verant/989 Studios has been working on for 18 years in EQ to get right. So not likely. But it would involve a class getting a set of abilities that follow a theme of the class but used in certain ways can change roles depending on how they are used.

WoW tackled this by talent specs. EQ2 didn't even really try (it does have a fourth role however, ADPS) Fighters tank, Priests Heal, and Scouts/Mages DPS/ADPS (Bards/Enchanters ADPS). So it really hasn't been attempted since 1999 outside some weird ability selection like in Archage and Rift.

In my opinion.. the way they could fix the social aspect without needing to rebalance the entire game and change philosophies is to make content a bit less predictable. The issue with DF is the dungeons there are routine. We know what will happen and when. A little bit of randomness in mobs, bosses, abilities used, and even dungeon layouts can help. PotD kinda tried this, but with the unique leveling system being detached in the way it was. Its difficulty had to be scaled back.

Or to make things even simpler... make things a little tougher. Repose and Sleep were excellent tools in the beginning of 2.0 and I did see some early groups use marks to designate CC targets. Though the general community quickly outgeared the content and made those tools irrelevant. Fix gear scaling and make groups of mobs hard enough to warrant it. Roots, stuns, and silences should be relevant was well.

To be quite honest.. I think all content outside what is in the Expert Roulette should be strict with its ilvl scaling. I'm ok with increasing rewards to compensate. The idea isn't to make the content harder. We've all done the content when it was current. It shouldn't be harder than that. But future stuff can be tuned to all abilities being kept in mind during its creation. I mean we know a tank will have enmity generating abilities, healers will have heals, and dps will have high potency attacks. Why not assume we have everything else those classes and roles typically have too?

I've seen keyboard turning mouse clicking players in other games manage those sorts of mechanics. Should be easy for the typical FFXIV player to adapt to. If a bit different than they're used to. Keep it fresh.

[Canopia]

I find it funny when people have complaints about games that are getting half a decade old and wondering why people dont talk anymore after a point. Main reason is, a new game means new people means having to be social in order to get things done. Now we have in game friends, we have free companies and link shells we are a part of. We are no longer looking for friends, we have them already, thus less of a need to make new ones. Its like school, the first day in a new school its fine to be a social butterfly to find your niche, but after a number of years you find it and theres no need to seek one out.

[HyoMinPark]

The worst thing to happen to MMOs was Discord. That's where all the socialization went. They are all talking out of game on it.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Discord. Until very recently you couldn't even /tell people that you were friends with on other servers; you had to either make a cross-server PF (another feature that isn't that old compared to this game's lifecycle) or speak to each other externally. Cross-server PFs prevent other activities, so external communication was the better option. And don't say Discord is some new thing--before Discord, there was Teamspeak. Before Teamspeak, way back in the day, was MSN, AOL, Yahoo! Messenger. There's Skype and Facebook messenger. Online chatting is not something new.

And to address your later comments about "cliques" and "division"--that exists everywhere in life, and it existed way before Discord was a thing. My very first FC back in 2015 had cliques. Cliques exist in small groups and larger groups--smaller groups have 1~2 cliques, larger ones have many multiples of that. That's a societal aspect certainly not limited to this game, nor directly fueled by the creation of Discord. It has always existed.

I have an FC to talk with. I just find the game at large was more social in ARR and HW. That said I have changed servers since that time.

So.... contributing to your observed "problem". In other words.

That's fine if you want to address the lack of communication in things like duties. But when you don't even practice what you're complaining about there being a lack of, it makes you look hypocritical.