Discrimination of certain jobs - your opinion

[KaivaC]

I know I have some reading to do to catch up, but based on the title and the first few posts, I’m gonna add in my preliminary thoughts, because I’ve seen exclusion as well. I really don’t know why people are so caught up in meta, because FFXIV doesn’t have a true meta. There is party synergy, and that’s a different story altogether, but a party that isn’t pre-made that excludes certain classes based on buff utility are usually trap parties. NA/EU groups are the most guilty of it. I shouldn’t have to switch to a class that I don’t know just to be able to do a fight. Sure, it’s easy to create a PF, but the raiding scene is on a break right now, so there aren’t quite as many raiding players as there were around the 4.1 patch.

I have to repeat myself because these are the forums and some people do like to nitpick certain words: this is not talking about premades, and now that I think about it, it doesn’t include statics either. This comment was mostly about pugs and randoms putting up a party in the PF.

[Kahnom]

Always noticed a SAM created pf that exclued MNK just for getting the striking gears for themselves.
Parse Run that need utility-wise aside.
Yes,Its their PF so they have all the right to be selfish.
Also I have all the right to say that to their faces that they’re selfish as well.
These pf leaders always do crap dps that’s why they need meta to carried them through the fight.
Pathetic if you ask me.

[Miste]

On Primal I don't really see much job blocking...only very rarely.

It is usually like they'll block out certain jobs because they already have one in the party and don't want to stack same jobs which seems fine to me... even I do that sometimes to avoid losing LB speed.

Only other thing was the meta speed run groups, but honestly I only see those like 1 out of 20-30 PFs for savage farms etc. So I haven't seen it as an issue since there is tons of other parties I could join on my RDM even though it isn't meta. Some speed run groups don't even run meta since I've seen groups take WHM, SAM, and RDM etc even though they aren't meta.

I can usually join groups on whatever job I want unless they don't want to stack jobs, which I just make my own PF or wait for another one. I don't see discrimination as a problem in my experience on my data center anyway. I've personally never seen groups only lock out SAM and BLM, but it may happen as to not stack people rolling for the same loot type too, can't do much about that. Like I have seen a group lock out BLM and SMN, but one of the current members was a RDM and likely it was blocked due to gear lots and/or not stacking casters.

I've been farming quite a bit since the unlock and I join on RDM which isn't meta and I also see tons of SAMs. In fact there is usually at least one SAM in the group (if not two) when I farm savage. BLM I don't see as often, but the PFs I join have never blocked BLM out so far for me either. SAM seems to be very popular since I see them everywhere.

I mean I personally don't think locking certain jobs out simply to avoid stacking same jobs or stacking too many people rolling on the same loot is discrimination since it has nothing to do with the job's toolkit...simply that people don't want to have to roll against someone else for loot and/or don't want to stack same jobs for LB etc. It isn't the same thing as locking a job out because the person hosting thinks that job is weak or not meta etc which is more akin to actual discrimination.

In the end though people can make PFs however they want, that is why PF is there. I don't play on EU DC, but 80% seems kind of farfetched. Is your experience really 80% of groups won't take SAM? Minus the groups that won't take SAM because there is already one in the group? That seems unbelievably high.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

IAlso MNK and MCH.are 100% fine....idk why people still think they're bad lol. Old judgements die hard.

This. Captured my sentiments as a MCH perfectly.

[AmaSagahl]

...
In the end though people can make PFs however they want, that is why PF is there. I don't play on EU DC, but 80% seems kind of farfetched. Is your experience really 80% of groups won't take SAM? Minus the groups that won't take SAM because there is already one in the group? That seems unbelievably high.

It's not farfetched, since there are not many raiders left, like Kaiva mentioned as well - plus, a lot of people seemed to jump straight up to o4s (which means there are usually a lot of o4s groups and less of v1, v2 and v3). Sometimes it's even hard to fill a group on a saturday night. If the active population would be at normal levels, then of course the number would be lower. But yes, I can definitely say out of 10 groups there are 6-7 with role restrictions; which means 60%-70%.
The problem exists, nevertheless.

I believe that the developers are planning to address a lot of the issues surrounding BLM right now, but I think the purpose of jobs like BLM and SAM are that their personal DPS serves as the “utility” they bring. But, unfortunately, a lot of groups much prefer the types of utility from jobs like NIN and BRD/MCH (hence why those three are meta), and the buffs from NIN and DRG (so, again, meta). And it’s fine if the devs want BLM/SAM to just be these godly, monstrous DPS machines, but, as it stands now, they really aren’t. Like I stated earlier, a skilled MNK can easily keep up with an equally-skilled SAM (there isn’t a terrible difference in the two’s personal DPS), and SMN just stomps all over BLM in terms of damage AND utility right now.

Agreed. Samurai are certainly no monstrous DPS machines compared to other jobs like MNK, if they are well played. Which is a problem since that's what SE seemingly had in mind, that Samurai would be equally valuable even without buff because of their dps output.

[AmaSagahl]

...

If you want to gear up a class you like sometimes you have to play a class you don't like. It's always been that way.

And please don't tell me "Oh I don't like to heal." Level up BRD then. No one is going to say no to brd, it will always be meta.

That's your choice. I am playing this game for the fun of it, I am raiding because it's rewarding and fun. I am playing a class I am determined to nail 100%. Suggesting to me that I should just play BRD tells me that you haven't really understood where I am coming from, neither that you have put the effort in and read what has been said in this thread.
And it's actually not true: WoW had (not sure if present tense would be correct since I didn't play it in a while) raid wide buffs for every class.

Also, my static never forced me to play anything particular. We had players who had levelled multiple classes so we could switch depending on need, but that someone forces you into a job sounds a bit dodgy to me. I am totally agreeing with @HyoMinPark - what he/she said about statics.

[Soupa]

I discriminate against people who discriminate. Does this make me a monster?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Also MNK and MCH.are 100% fine....idk why people still think they're bad lol. Old judgements die hard.

... I can already hear the Monk in my static screaming while digging for his essay on why Monk is definitely not fine. At least not design wise.

MCH is pretty damn solid though.

[Raikki]

I am playing this game for the fun of it, I am raiding because it's rewarding and fun. I am playing a class I am determined to nail 100%.

The point is that there are currently 15 jobs in the game. Of those, 2 are currently in a bad place and may have more difficulty finding a group (on your datacenter). Given that the game makes it easy to play multiple jobs, isn't it possible that you could have fun on one of the other 13 jobs until SE fixes your main? Nobody's trying to tell you not to love SAM, just that you might be able to have more fun with the game right now by trying something else in the meantime.

When you talk about "discrimination" you speak as though SAM is your identity. A lot of the endgame playerbase doesn't see things that way. They're seeing you as a player, one who has the option to play any of the 15 jobs. They aren't saying no to you as a person, just no to you joining on SAM.

[ChocoFeru]

IMO, don't waste your time with people who is obsessed with the "BiS" raid setup. They hunt the numbers, not the clears/fun of the game.

I'll tell you my personal experience in FFXIV.

I've been raiding since 2.0 and never stopped, and I only had 2 statics, both with the same mentality: recruit the person, not the job.
Since then I've been completting the raids in time on every patch, cleared every single content and stuff, made friends, went with them to fanfest etc... and I'm still raiding with my static. We're not a "BiS" setup, and yet we clear content fast.


On the other hand, I've seen statics and even Free Companies who were obsessed aiming to be "the best" in raiding, being toxic and prepotent with their own members. These statics/FCs end up disapearing in a few weeks/months. Their own lack of understanding and their obsession with numbers makes them forget the objective of this game.

It's always the same behaviour:
- Look for the BiS party
- Make enemies on their way
- Complete content fast
- Leave the game because they're bored (even raiding)
- Come back after months and restart


So yeah, just let them be what they are, they're not going to change, don't let them change you. Just keep playing what you really enjoy.